January 29, 2004

The Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, met in special session on January 29, 2004, at 2:40 p.m. in the Government Center Florida Room, Building C, 2725 Judge Fran Jamieson Way, Viera, Florida. Present were: Chair Nancy Higgs, Commissioners Truman Scarborough, Ron Pritchard, Susan Carlson, and Jackie Colon, County Manager Tom Jenkins, and County Attorney Scott Knox.

Also present were: State Senators Bill Posey and Mike Haridopolos, and State Representatives Ralph Poppell, Thad Altman, Mitch Needelman, Bob Allen, and Stan Mayfield.

OPENING COMMENTS

Chair Higgs stated the Commission and the Delegation have met for the last several years to talk about issues before the Legislature and the concerns of the County; it has been an informal discussion between the two bodies; and it has been useful to bring the issues to the table and talk about them prior to the session beginning. She requested the Legislators and Commissioners identify themselves and describe their Districts.

Representative Ralph Poppell stated District 29 covers the lower and western part of Indian River County to the northern part of Brevard County; it is approximately 100 miles long; and if anyone wants to know an exit on I-95, as much as he travels it, he thinks he can help. He stated it is a great bunch of people; and he enjoys what he is doing.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he represents from Cocoa to the Volusia County line.

Senator Haridopolos stated he represents Senate District 26, which includes Brevard, Osceola, Indian River, and St. Lucie Counties.

Commissioner Colon stated she represents the beachside from Indian Harbour Beach to Indialantic, and West Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne Village, and Palm Bay.

Senator Bill Posey stated he represents the north half of Brevard County, east Orange County and the eastern half of Seminole County.

Chair Higgs stated she represents District 3, which includes part of the beachside, the South Mainland, and parts of Palm Bay, West Melbourne, Melbourne, and Malabar.

Representative Bob Allen stated he represents District 32, which includes the areas of eastern Orange County, and North Brevard County down to the Space Center, Port, Merritt Island, and Cocoa.

Commissioner Pritchard stated he is elected by the voters in District 2, which includes Cocoa, Cocoa Beach, Cape Canaveral, Merritt Island, and also unincorporated areas; but he represents the County.

Representative Mitch Needelman stated he represents District 31 and all the citizens of Florida; and his District is from Pineda Causeway almost to the South County line, and from I-95 to the Atlantic Ocean.

Commissioner Carlson stated she is the Commissioner of District 4; and her District is from the City of Rockledge down through Melbourne to Aurora Road, and on the beachside from the Pineda Causeway to Indian Harbour Beach.

Representative Thad Altman stated he represents House District 30, which encompasses half of Rockledge and down to the southern boundary of Palm Bay on the mainland, and from Cocoa Beach to Satellite Beach.

Representative Stan Mayfield stated District 80 has small portions of South Brevard, a large share of Indian River County, and into northern St. Lucie County.

Chair Higgs stated it is useful for people to understand the diversity the Representatives and Senators have in the Districts; they all represent the citizens of Brevard County and of Florida; but the diversity of the geographic areas represent unique challenges in serving the people. She stated the legislators have the County’s legislative package; staff is present; and they are always ready to go over those requests. She stated the package was presented at the Delegation meeting; Vice Chair Pritchard presented it at a recent meeting; and she does not intend to go over it today. She stated a top concern is the budget; as the Board works on the budget, it will be interested in what the Legislature is doing; and the sooner the County knows what is coming from the State, the better it will be able to adapt and plan. She stated the Board recognizes the challenges the Legislators have; but the sooner the County knows the good or bad news, the better planning it can do because it has to react and plan in accordance to what the State does. She stated the County, in conjunction with the Port, is doing a study of the ocean water to identify if there are health problems, what they are, if there is nutrient loading, and what the issues are with those waters; some initial studies point out some concerns; and they want to look at those. She advised they are waters of the State; and while the Board is moving forward with the Port at this time, she hopes the Delegation will encourage the Department of Environmental Protection and the State to partner on the study. She stated there may be some in-kind contribution that DEP could make or it could monitor it carefully so if there are issues, they will be participating in the science as it goes forward. She stated other Commissioners may have other specific issues they wish to talk about; but at this time she will turn the meeting over to Representative Allen, who is Chair of the Delegation, for comments.

Representative Allen stated he appreciates the County Commission inviting the Delegation, as it has in years past, to meet and make connection before they go to Tallahassee; the budget process is especially important; and they will be working that together. He stated the Brevard County Delegation represents a diverse geographic area, the dynamic Central Florida region; and that brings a good nexus of other legislators to the table when it is time for Brevard County’s agenda to be discussed. Representative Allen advised the Delegation meets with like counterparts in other counties; MyRegion.org has recently expressed a lot of the assets in the region; and one of the best assets is the Legislative Delegation and the County Commissions working together. He stated they had their regular Delegation meeting where they discussed many open issues from the public; and they held a special budget request session, Community Budget Issues Request (CIBR) at which Vice Chair Pritchard submitted another copy of the CIBR proposals. He stated those were divided by work assignments; the Speaker of the House gives various Committee assignments for them to serve on; and they try to take the CIBR’s that they would have the best ability to succeed with through the conference process. He noted geographics also play a part in that, so where they can, they will be working on all of the requests that they can, but specifically they will be working with The County’s Legislative Coordinator to track the processes and know the budget consequences. He stated if anyone has a specific issue to bring up, they can discuss that; otherwise, they have received the requests and submitted them in a timely fashion. He stated he was pleased to see the County and Port working together; Joe Matheny, Chair of the Port Authority, did a column regarding that partnership on the water issues; and it reminded him of the last time this occurred with the ranking of all America’s beaches. He stated after the 911 event, a group came out of Kansas and ranked all of America’s beaches; they said some disturbing things about Florida’s beaches, and especially in this area, regarding pollution; and the Visit Florida people and the DEP quickly rallied to find out the real story on those water qualities. He stated they found that some of the points of the study were off; and they quickly got the facts out through Florida’s network at that critical time in the State’s economy that Brevard’s beaches were healthier than had been reported. He stated it was a wake-up call; the State needs to have a vested interest in making sure the quality of its beaches is sound and something to brag about; many of the Delegation are interested in what the Board and Port are doing; and they will try to take the message to DEP and the Visit Florida people to let them know the County is reaching out on its own with the Port to do that valuable benchmarking of the water quality issue. He thanked Chair Higgs for bringing that to his attention; and stated he would like to open the floor for discussion.

PUBLIC COMMENTS

Commissioner Scarborough stated Joe Steckler has submitted a card; one of the primary concerns of the Board is that statistics show that the population over the age of 84 has increased in the region; and by comparison to other counties, Brevard County has increased multiple times as much. He stated Brevard County is getting older very rapidly; and the ability of the County to respond before it becomes a problem is critical.

Chair Higgs stated she does not have a segment of the Agenda intended to take public comments; but if Commissioners would like to call someone up, that would be fine.

Representative Allen stated Commissioner Scarborough mentioned to them before about the needs, especially in other geographic parts of the County; and he hopes they can address North Brevard. Commissioner Scarborough stated Mr. Steckler has several issues; and some of them is State funding and the County getting its fair share of the specific facilities.

Chair Higgs stated she is going to invoke the Board’s rules to limit speakers to five minutes; and only those who are invited up by members of the Delegation or the Board will be speaking. She advised the Delegation has a meeting following this one, so they will try to keep their discussion on point.

Joe Steckler stated he is present as an elder advocate and is also the Chair of the Brevard Commission on Aging, which represents 94,000 people over the age of 65 in Brevard County. He stated the County has a serious problem; it becomes more serious every day; and it is not going to go away. He stated the Commission on Aging identified three issues, the guardianship program, expanded elderly care, and elderly services; and those items are included in the package. He stated he wants to talk about the problems associated with the money they received; there are many things people do not know; the dementia-specific money is a $6.5 million program that was approved; there is money for it; but it has not been determined how that money is going to be spent or where it is going to be spent. He stated on November 26 a proposal went to Washington to determine where the money would be spent and what areas it would be spent in; and his concern is that Brevard County is the seventh oldest County in the State in terms of people over age 65; and he does not want to miss out on that money. He stated the County missed out to a great extent on the Diversion Program, which was a pilot program started in 1998 and funded at $38 million; Orange, Osceola, Seminole, Martin, and Okechobee Counties were involved; but only one of those counties has a larger elder population than Brevard County. He stated they did not even start breaking into that money until September 2003; and that is criminal. He stated last year the Governor put $30 million more into that program for a total of $68 million; and right now the providers in Brevard County have received less than a half-million dollars this fiscal year. He stated there is $68 million and it has now expanded to 17 counties; and in the current budget, the Governor has put $12.1 million, which is a total of $80.1 million. He stated if the County continues to not get the money, it is just going to hurt more; the money is available; part of the program is asset allocation; and that is why all of the members of the Delegation need to know how these funds are being spent. He requested the Legislature through its staff target how that money is being allocated. He stated the Diversion Program is a capitative program; $2,465 was given to the HMO, a managed care operation that manages the money; if Brevard’s Alzheimer’s Foundation of any day care provided one month of service, it would be paid $888; and the rest of that money goes to the organization that is managing it. He stated he is not sure that is right when there are more effective ways of managing the money through the State; there are some things that need to be looked at as far as how to serve the people of Brevard County with funds that are already there. He stated he is on the Board of Directors for the Brevard Alzheimer’s Foundation; and they appreciate the Board forwarding part of the legislative package to them, which includes the request to build a third center in Titusville. He stated the facility is needed; it is a way to develop partnering in the community; and Bill Hoskinson, President of the Community Services Council, always makes a point to say that there are few counties in the State that have a better care provider network than Brevard County.

Representative Needelman stated this is a good example of why there needs to be an advertisement program; and commented on an ad playing on the radio about a prince who looks handsome, but nobody knows. He stated when they started with the $5.8 million that was allocated for the Medicaid Home Program for Alzheimer’s, the first thing they discovered was the number the State had for Brevard County was eight who qualified; in less than 24 hours, staff, with the help of Mr. Steckler and other organizations, found 144 who qualified; and before two weeks was over, the number was over 700. He stated they need to work the partnership to make sure other people outside Brevard County know what it has; it must be able to bring that message; and they are still working on that program. He advised of a meeting next week in Tallahassee; and stated even though everyone knows internally, unless they get that message outside to the agencies, they are not going to be successful. He stated it was well proven last year with the small budget of $5.8 million; and recommended Mr. Steckler work with the Board and the Delegation to get the message outside Brevard County. Mr. Steckler stated if any of the Delegation offices want information, they can contact Leigh Holt, who is Director of Strategic Planning on the County Staff; and she can work with all the agencies to bring that information to them.

Commissioner Colon stated she would like Ms. Williams to talk about the legislation to shift Medicaid costs to the counties; and Chief Rumbley will speak after Ms. Williams on the Mental Health and Community Legislative Report.

Gay Williams, Housing and Human Services Director, stated they have put in the package time and again measures that would ask the Delegation to oppose any shift in Medicaid costs to the counties; they are aware that last year the Legislature was successful in defeating any of that shifting; but once again they are faced with the possibility of the impact that it would cause to the County government. She stated they provide and accommodate very much within the community; those costs have increased dramatically; and this year alone, the County found itself facing almost $800,000 increase in the projected budget. She requested the Delegation continue to oppose any legislative move to shift those additional costs to the County.

Chief Paul Rumbley, speaking on behalf of the Commission on Mental Health and Community Solutions, stated he wants to talk specifically about two opportunities the Delegation will have in Tallahassee relating to reform. He stated the Commission on Mental Health and Community Solutions proposed as its first priority a 16-bed short-term residential treatment facility; he does not see that as one of the issues for the Delegation’s radar screen in Tallahassee right now; but there will be a lot of work behind the scenes to make that a reality. He stated that is the number one priority and component they miss for their clients in Brevard County. He stated an active issue in Tallahassee has to do with Baker Act beds and amendments to the Baker Act criteria; the Governor’s budget includes approximately $19 million for mental health services, which includes the Department of Children and Families request for just over $14 million for 234 adult beds, about 50 of which would be in District 7. He stated based on the formulas that exist today, that would result in ten to twelve new beds for Brevard County; and advised as a seasoned police officer, he can tell they are at crisis here and need these beds desperately. He stated the Commission on Mental Health, in conjunction with the Board of County Commissioners, asks the Delegation to support this legislative effort when it comes before it; and they need the formula to take place and for the County to get its fair share of the 50 beds. He stated the second point he wanted to raise has to do with the Baker Act amendments; he approached the Delegation last year about them; and the Sheriffs Association as well as the Florida Police Chiefs, of which he is president, support the reform being proposed this year, which will prevent a small group of recidivists from exhausting the resources. He stated more detailed information is in the packet; and distributed packets to the Board and the Legislative Delegation. He stated the reform would allow law enforcement officers to more quickly return to patrol duties and would save money by avoiding hospitalization, violence, and arrest. He stated in 2003, the Florida House passed the Reform Bill 113-2; it also passed the Senate Judiciary Committee, but did not make it to the floor in time for passage last year. He stated he and a group of other police officers will be in Tallahassee in the spring; the 2004 Baker Act reform bill was filed in the Senate on November 21 by Senator Peaden, cosponsored by Senator Fasano; and it has been referred to the Children and Families, Judiciary, and Criminal Justice Committees. He stated a similar bill was filed in the House of Representatives by Representative Simmons on January 14, 2004; and as Chair of the Mental Health Commission, he supports SB 700 and HB 463, which form the Baker Act criteria. He stated Baker Act reform has to happen for the police to do their business well when they are called out hundreds and hundreds of times for clients who are in need of something other than SWAT teams. He stated they need to be able to recognize and help these people and get them into services quickly; and the law does not allow them to do it. He requested the Delegation pay attention to that; and advised he will see them in Tallahassee.

Senator Posey stated it says to “allow law enforcement increased discretionary temporary detention in on-scene investigation and evaluation, and provide for civil liability”; and requested Chief Rumbley give a practical example of the way it is and how it needs to be. Chief Rumbley stated they go to a scene now and unless a person clearly demonstrates the ability and propensity to do bodily harm to themselves or another person, they are precluded from an involuntary Baker Act; what they are asking for in the reform is to be allowed to look at some information about the person, consider medical history, and look at the reality of how they are behaving. He stated a schizophrenic person may not be dangerous in their view at the moment; but a law enforcement officer with all his years of experience may get on the scene and think something is not right. He stated a family member may advise the individual is off his medication; there are hundreds of cases where they wish they could do something, but they have to leave; and he does not need to recite the tragedies that have occurred subsequent to their leaving.

Senator Posey stated the next one is to allow previous history to be analyzed; Chief Rumbley covered that; and the last is a Statewide treatment program to facilitate changes. Chief Rumbley stated when there is a chance legislative staff will give them a thumbnail sketch of the key issues that will be in the Sheriff’s bills that they will be pushing; and they will hear more about it from the Chiefs and the Sherriffs.

Representative Allen stated it is an honor for the Brevard County Police Chief to be the head of the State group; and he does fine work. He stated they also have in the Senate the Chair of the Criminal Justice Committee, Senator Haridopolos; the components of this legislation will go through his committee; and he will keep everyone apprised of the things they need to know.

Chair Higgs stated it has been good for the committee to have the perspective the Chief brings to the problems of mental health; it has been a very vibrant committee; and it has been active for several years in bringing recommendations forward.

DISCUSSION, RE: BREVARD COUNTY 2004 LEGISLATIVE REQUESTS

Commissioner Pritchard stated Senate Bill 0234 is Senator Posey’s bill dealing with repealing the exemption for ostrich feed; and the reason he is bringing it up is that he has a list of billions of dollars worth of exemptions that the State currently has. He stated many of them make sense to him, but a few do not; the exemption is for feed for poultry and livestock, with which he has no problem; but then it is also for racehorses; and inquired why were racehorses not looked at. He stated there are exemptions of $39 million for Section 501C3 organizations; there are exemptions for bottled water except carbonated bottled water; people pay more for bottled water than they do for gasoline; and it does not make sense to him. He stated imported items, if used in another state for six months or more, are exempt; and that is $150 million. He stated newspaper and magazine inserts are $39 million; and the list goes on and on. He stated in looking at the potential revenue streams and silly exemptions, some of the items must have been looked at; and inquired why were they not included in the other bills. He inquired if it is that much of an ox to gore that people simply do not want to give up their exemptions.

Senator Posey stated he chose that with the exemption on skybox sales tax because he thought is was the silliest one on there; it does not pass the straight face test or the sniff test; there are no ostrich farms left in Florida although at one time there were four ostrich packing plants; and he felt comfortable he could get a House sponsor on it. He inquired who is sponsoring that in the House; and no response was heard. He stated in respect to his colleagues in the House, the Speaker of the House will not let these things come to the floor for a vote. He inquired if Representative Poppell is doing the skybox bill; with Representative Poppell responding he is looking at it. Senator Posey stated he can do them both; he passed them both last year in the Senate; and he thought they should start looking at some of the stupid things that are not good public policy. He stated the House Speaker says it raises taxes if they get rid of exemptions; and no matter how miserable the public policy is or if it was voted on sixteen million to one, the Speaker would refuse to let this be heard. He stated he thought he could open dialogue by taking the most onerous ones; and if he cannot get those heard, it is ridiculous to try to go any farther. He stated it is obscene that if you go to Campbell Stadium and you are in the bottom 78,000 seats, you pay six percent sale tax on your ticket; but if you are in the millionaire skyboxes, you do not pay sales tax. He stated that is the worst case of public policy in tax law; it is why they are trying to repeal it; and ostrich feed is another example because there are no ostriches but there are $40,000 in exemptions of voided State sales tax from ostrich feed.

Commissioner Pritchard stated he does not have the $19.5 exemption broken down; it is from poultry and live stock, which he does not have any problem with; but he does have a problem with ostriches and racehorses.

Chair Higgs stated the Board wishes Senator Posey well on the ostrich bill and hopes he does not lay an egg.

Representative Needelman stated the Delegation appreciates that Senator Posey has brought the silliness into it; but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. He stated in 1987 there was a Constitutional Amendment that requires the State to look at the structure of taxes, income, revenue, and expenditures, and to look at the exemption list; in 2007 the Speaker of the House will appoint six people who are not members of the House, and the Senate President will appoint six people who are not members of the Senate; then four from the House and Senate will be appointed as non-voters; and the Governor will also serve to review this. He stated the process is beginning now; there is a system; it is in the Constitution under Article 11, Section 6; there is a process to do that; and as long as they keep it on the front burner, when it comes time to choose those people, there will be players out there interested in how to change the structure.

Commissioner Carlson stated she has a lot of issues, but they are all addressed in the packet; and she would like to discuss Governor Bush’s spending plan. She stated she would like to get a feel from all the Legislators on how they feel the spending plan could potentially cause tax increases locally or service cuts, and how the Governor is addressing the tax holiday and intangible tax. She requested the Legislators address generally how they feel about what is going to happen this year. She stated it is an election year for the President, so she does not know if that is going to impact the County in a positive or negative way; but when she sees the spending plan from the Governor, she translates it into local increases and cost shifts. She stated the County has a list started of cost shifts it is anticipating; they are hoping that is not going to get bigger; and requested the Legislators address the general feel in regard to spending and the program that Governor Bush is presenting in the budget.

Representative Allen stated the Governor’s budget has some exemptions in it and some maintaining the commitments on reducing or eliminating the intangible taxes; the Legislature voted to do away with that; and he has continued that in his budget this year. He stated one of the most popular and surprising programs on tax policy that the Legislature has put together in the past years was the sales tax holiday; at first he thought it was almost a gimmick; but it turned into a real benefit. He stated the Retail Federation has come forward with data and committees that have shown that other than the Christmas season, the tax free holiday season has become one of the biggest shopping retail weeks they have; they target other sales and marketing activities so people purchase things that are not even on the tax exempt status; and it causes a marketing event that has great economic benefit. He stated for those who have to outfit children who go to school, that whole category of goods is discounted at tax holiday, so it is very popular with voters; and when it was shut off for a year, they heard a lot about it from citizens and retailers on that issue. He stated in the House of Representatives the worst thing they would want to do is tax intangibles again; it is taxing people’s income that they have already earned and paid income tax and other taxes on; then when they set it aside as a nest egg and invest it, which America loves to see, they are taxed again, so it does not make a lot of sense. He stated they were pleased to pull the intangibles tax off because it is bad tax policy; and as the revenue stream of Florida increases, the time is right to go forward with the final phase of it. He stated when it crosses over and mandates to local governments with the bill, he does not think anyone on the Delegation would want to stick the local governments with the bill without a revenue stream or revenue ability to cover it; and that is where working together, they should guard to make sure there is not a shift of cost without a shift of revenue; they do not want to see local mandates with no money; and they should be looking item-by-item, case by case to make sure they hunt them down and that the process does not do that to local governments. He stated there is a philosophy alive and well in Tallahassee that as many things as they can shift to local government and the local point of decision making is good as long as, from the local government’s perspective, there is money with it. He stated as far as the Governor’s budget, there is some debate brewing over trust funds; the trust fund issue is something that was faced during the tight times of the economy; other places in the country were far different from Florida in that they had big deficits; but Florida kept it within the digits and did not go into deficit spending. He stated they had to make some tough choices; they did not get to fund all the needs; and they had to prioritize those needs; but they still kept fiscal sound management so they are in the best strength possible to recover when the economy recovers. He stated they are starting to see that happen and are moving forward; and there is some debate brewing in the House already. He stated some people have filed bills to not allow the proposed Governor’s budget to raid the trust funds again; trust funds were seen as a stopgap measure during the very tight economic year; but revenues are starting to come back. He stated an analysis was made that a trust fund was sitting there for some purpose but was not being utilized; and it was like a family taking money from its roof fund to buy groceries. He stated some people said that the trust fund should not be touched because the word trust means something; so, there are going to be arguments on that. He stated there are cultural things, transportation issues, and the like that the Governor has proposed collapse and sweep; the Governor sees it as one revenue pot of money and the obligations of the trust funds can be met through general revenue; and that is what the legislative process is going to be about, to make sure how much of that occurs or not. He stated from his perspective of dealing in the budget committee that he sits on, that is the way that has been proposed; and other members of the Delegation may have other aspects to speak about.

Chair Higgs stated the Board knows the Delegation has a subsequent meeting; the schedule is running long; they have brought forward the key issues; and she will open the floor for other comments by members of the Delegation or Commissioners. She noted they have brought forward those things that are of most importance; and they appreciate the Delegation taking the time to meet with the Board.

Commissioner Carlson requested the Delegation tell them about the status of the Constitutional amendments that are out there, so people will know what to expect on the November 4 ballot. Representative Allen advised there are in excess of 50 approaching the ballot; of the 50, half will fall away because they do not meet the basic criteria; and out of the half that are left, the Supreme Court will in clarity of language and single purpose language requirements weed those out. He stated it is like incoming missiles; some will get through; and there is a chance to start acting like California again where there will be rule by competing referendums, creating Constitutional conflicts, which becomes troublesome. He stated each one could be argued on its merits; but it is getting out of hand; the House has a working select subcommittee that is bringing forth some proposals to make the amendment process open to citizens but not open for special interests to buy, misuse, and abuse the Constitution.

Senator Haridopolos stated one issue is the class size amendment; the County voted no on it, but the State as a whole voted yes; and they might be revisiting that amendment. He stated it might be that they will not get rid of it completely; but it may be moved to the K-3 system; and Representative Mayfield, who also has a background in education, has been looking at this. He stated last year’s budget was just under half a billion dollars; and this year’s budget is well over half a billion. He stated he was just at Manatee Elementary Schools; and commented on adjustments to their site plans. He stated he visited each School Board in his District; and they would rather see flexibility with money, especially in Brevard County where 88% of the schools have earned an A rating and 96% have either an A or B rating. He stated he would rather give them flexibility as opposed to a mandate, which ties the hands of educators; and he hopes they can revisit that with a cost analysis. He stated it was a huge discussion last year; and it is something that should be looked at. He stated Representative Allen put the issue well; the taxpayers need to know what they are getting into before they run into the Californiacation of Florida. He stated he hopes they will address this and other issues; it is the right thing to do because people on the front lines, the educators, are worried about the one size fits all situation when a lot of the money is being pushed south at the expense of Brevard, St. Lucie, Orange, and other counties they represent.

Commissioner Carlson inquired about the transportation issue with the rail and if there is an amendment to overturn that. Representative Allen stated HJR 3 is to put back on the ballot the opportunity for people to vote again on the rail, knowing the cost. He stated Senator Klein, the Democratic floor leader of the Senate, has filed a bill to do the same thing, so there is bipartisan effort to start that. He stated the Governor came out recently with a comprehensive letter on his position asking for the rail to be put on the ballot for repeal; but in that letter he started to do something that he found troublesome. He stated it says the phase one and phase two components of the high-speed rail project would have direct impact on projects of the Transportation Department; the new Secretary of the Department of Transportation came before committee and said he was against the high-speed rail; and since the Governor and Secretary of DOT are both saying it, he is starting to believe it. He stated when he asked for footnoted references in the budget of how the rail connected to those projects, the Governor’s office staff was glad to provide that. He stated Brevardians especially should be concerned because I-95 three-laning is up for cutting in the phase one portion of the high-speed rail program; he does not think anyone who drives on I-95 wants to see two lanes remain in Brevard County for a long time more than it has to; but the planned three-lane expansion of I-95, according to the Governor and Secretary of Transportation, are planned to be cut. He stated they list several others that would happen; and that was slated for 2007. He stated it is a safety issue in Florida, especially in Brevard County; I-95 comes through all the communities; and he finds it very troublesome. He noted he was against the high-speed rail being in the Constitution; freedom of speech, freedom of worship, and train schedules do not match; but it seems that now that they know the cost factor, the issue has become a poster child for the Legislature for cost factors. He stated they tried in 2001 to put the requirement that costs associated with constitutional amendments would be included for the voters because they knew that was the drawback of the high-speed rail project; the Supreme Court found it to be unconstitutional for them to stand as a Legislature in the path between the Constitution and the amendment process by putting restrictions like that; and the Supreme Court told the Legislature that only the people can restrict themselves about what they want to know or not know. He stated the Legislature responded quickly to put on the ballot the ability to know the cost in looking at the Constitution; and that passed very strongly, so bills and proposals to go with the constitutional ballot will have to have the costs associated with them. Representative Allen stated there is a lot of sensitivity about touching the Constitution and the people’s will as expressed at the ballot box; they are getting strong feedback in his District that they want to know and vote; so they are going to be putting that up again. He stated there is all kinds of interest in the streets to try to bring amendments to that; Representative Needelman has supported getting an amendment signed to the process of the Constitution to be bringing back the ballot; there is a constitutional provision for the Legislature to do that; and one way or another, they are heading that way.

Senator Posey stated the price tag on the class size amendment and the rail are both somewhere between $12 billion and $20 billion dollars each; nobody has sought exactly what it would be, but for immediate implementation, it would approach nearly the total amount of this year’s entire budget; and that puts it into perspective. He stated if they were to do the class size amendment, bricks and mortar compliance, this year and dump all the money into rail, they will not be able to give schools or health care a dime; they will not be able to do anything with the $50 billion they are in arrears on the Interstate highway structure; nothing will happen; and they will just get a train that does not serve Brevard County or its residents and a bill for class size tab that will go to benefit mostly Dade and Broward Counties. He stated if they do not do something out of the box on those two issues, Brevard County will help pay for the train for someone else and put additional classrooms in counties that are not as well managed as Brevard County, and did not anticipate having smaller class size like Brevard County did. He emphasized the County will be a donor but not a recipient on those two big funds, which total almost as much as the entire State budget; it would be nice to have high-speed rail and smaller class size; but it is a matter of priority. He stated there are people who want to have more children covered for medical treatment and people who are concerned about the arts and culture, but they are not going to do those things if they have to do high-speed rail and class size; the money is not there; and nothing will be funded if they have to comply with high-speed rail and the class size amendment entirely this year. He stated if they spread it out over five years, they will have to take away 20% from every other category; and the reality of the negative impact those two amendments will have on the finances of citizens in the State is incredible.

Chair Higgs stated it was very helpful to point out the consequences to the County.

Representative Altman stated he wants to give another perspective on the rail issue in particular; and this reflects the perspective of the majority of the Florida House of Representatives. He stated the Florida House chose not to put the rail back on the ballot; a lot of members chose that because they felt it was not their duty to second-guess the voters; and the members of the House who support the rail disagree with the numbers. He stated the High-speed Rail Authority has studied this project for over a decade; and the private sector feels this will work and is willing to invest millions of dollars, which is an indication of their confidence that the rail system will have a high ridership. He stated they feel in the long term Florida will recoup a profit from the ridership for the rail; the need is that great; anyone driving the I-4 corridor knows there are some serious transportation constraints; so, the Legislature has not taken action. He stated he does not know if the Legislature will support it this year because they feel the analysis in terms of the cost and the projects will be jeopardized; a lot of conditions were settled on such as no federal funding or no federal tax exempt bonding capacity; the federal government has been supportive of Florida; and the State has consistently obtained nearly half of all federal dollars going toward high-speed rail. Representative Altman stated it might be premature to say the State will lose those projects because it is based on some things not happening and some things happening that have not happened in the past; but the exciting thing about rail is the potential for reducing traffic congestion and offering mobility throughout the State. He stated in Broward County just one lane mile of Interstate expansion costs $13.5 million; the general thought is rail can be done for approximately $75 million a year; so, that equate to four to six miles of urban Interstate multi-laning. He stated there is a different side to this issue; and he knows it will be debated at length and a lot more information will come out on both sides. He stated regardless of what the Legislature decides, he trusts that body to make the right decision because he knows they will be deliberative in the process, and he has great respect for those on both sides of the issue.

Chair Higgs stated it points out the complexity of the many issues the Legislators have to deal with every day; none of them are simple or easy; and there are factions that support both sides, so that is why it is difficult to make the decision.

Representative Altman stated the Brevard County Commission and the Port Authority have been avid supporters of the rail; the general thought is that if the rail proceeds, Brevard County would be a part of the rail system because of the potential linking between the Port and the Orlando International Airport; and also there would be a Jacksonville to Miami link, so there is great potential. He stated the economic benefit is phenomenal; when they tried to get the 2012 Olympics, they failed; and the general thought was if they had the rail system under construction, they would have won that competition, so there is great economic benefit. He reiterated it will be highly debated and will be interesting to watch.

Senator Posey stated he loves Amtrak, but it is a financial bottomless pit; and he does not think the federal government would repeat that kind of spending if it had the opportunity to do it again. He stated if Representative Altman has seen plans that include Brevard County in the high-speed rail, he has seen something he has not been able to see in his diligent search over the past two years. He stated he has heard a lot of hope and talk, but no appearance anywhere in a plan that has been proposed to include Brevard County.

Representative Poppell stated he looks at the high-speed rail as something that will cost not only today but in the future; technology is changing daily; Japan and China have just started backing away from some of their programs because they are so expensive; and by the time the system would be paid for, it would be antiquated. He stated in 20 to 25 years when it was starting to have ridership and pay its way, it would be antiquated; and there would be a need for another $40 billion to upgrade it. He stated they are premature to be looking at the high-speed rail; and it will not be high-speed when it has to make numerous stops. He stated the distance from St. Petersburg to Orlando is 108 miles; if he drove on I-4 and got on the Beeline to the Airport, he would be there 30 minutes ahead of the train if he was doing the speed limit; and there is something wrong with calling something high-speed that is not high speed. Representative Poppell stated a third of the budget goes for education; another third goes for health care; and the remaining third is divided between transportation, law enforcement, security, courts, etc., of which courts and security get the smallest part and transportation gets the largest part. He stated they need to be putting those dollars where they can get the most return and help the taxpayers the most; and right now everybody wants to have the freedom to drive their cars and not having to worry about renting transportation when they get somewhere. He stated people will have to leave a car, ride the rail, and rent another car when they get there; and advised how flying to Tallahassee, once one considers the time spent driving to Orlando, waiting in line, and getting a car in Tallahassee only saves approximately one hour over driving. He stated it is not convenient for people; they need to back away from it; and he agrees with Representative Allen that this needs to be looked at.

Chair Higgs stated she is sure this is a hot debate that could continue for hours; she is glad to hear parts of it; and it is a fascinating subject that they will be hearing more about.

Upon motion and vote, the meeting was adjourned at 3:45 p.m.

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NANCY HIGGS, CHAIR
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
ATTEST: BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA

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SCOTT ELLIS, CLERK

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