January 26, 1999

The Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, met in special/workshop session on January 26, 1999, at 2:50 p.m. in the Government Center Florida Room, Building C, 2725 Judge Fran Jamieson Way, Viera, Florida. Present were: Chairman Truman Scarborough, Commissioners Randy O'Brien, Nancy Higgs, Sue Carlson, and Helen Voltz, and County Manager Tom Jenkins. Absent was: *County Attorney Scott Knox.

DISCUSSION, RE: LAWN MAINTENANCE/LANDSCAPING OPTIONS

Commissioner Voltz stated she likes option 4 but does not know where the County would get the money for it; and explained why the Cities of Palm Bay and Melbourne have gone back to lawn maintenance in-house. She stated if the Board wants the County to look beautiful, it will have to do it in-house. She noted her husband does lawn maintenance for the City of Melbourne, and does not believe it would cost $875,000.

Commissioner Carlson stated she does not have a problem with putting the three groups out to bid; and she discussed with Mr. Jenkins the possibility of bringing in an in-house horticulturist to provide perspective on how to coordinate the three activities.

Commissioner Higgs stated the County needs to continue to bid, enhance the bidding process, do a better job of qualifying bidders, and write tighter contracts before it jumps into some of the other options. She stated she is not clear on the difference between options 1 and 2, but does not want to take over the work in-house. County Manager Tom Jenkins stated Commissioner Higgs described option 1; and option 2 is to waive bidding and allow staff to negotiate with qualified firms. Commissioner Higgs stated she does not want to waive bidding, and wants good bids and tight contracts. Commissioner Voltz stated she does not have a problem with that; however, since there has been a problem in the past, the Board needs to revisit this issue in one year; and if it is not working, possibly go in-house with some of the things. Commissioner Higgs stated she agrees, but there should be a good tight bid and qualifications first.

Commissioner O'Brien stated the County could get bids and select one firm to do everything; and that firm can subcontract all it wants. He stated another way to do it would be to release three contracts for maintenance, north, central, and south. He stated if the Board does that, it will be looking at larger firms that can handle the job; and it will be possible to maintain costs. He stated the problem has been that the County does not have the time for oversight management. Commissioner Higgs stated the County has not written the contracts tight enough.

*County Attorney Scott Knox's presence was noted at this time.

Commissioner O'Brien stated he likes option 5, award based on the average bid amount. Commissioner Voltz stated it is like option 1, but not with the low bidder.

Chairman Scarborough stated he has only seen one successful operation; the City of Titusville does it all in-house; and the City employees have a sense of pride in their work. He advised of his unsuccessful attempts to correct problems on Fay Boulevard in Port St. John, at the North Brevard Library and at the North Brevard Government Center; stated there may be some good contracts; and explained how banks and professional organizations get the work done properly. He stated the bidding process is naturally flawed for something like this because it is too easy to cut corners; and an enormous amount of staff time is wasted. He expressed preference for doing the work in-house; and stated once the County starts doing it, it will be one of the best things it has ever done. He stated there could be specially designed uniforms and truck equipment; and people would comment.

Commissioner Voltz stated that is the way her husband feels; whoever was doing City Hall in Melbourne got fired; and within several months City Hall was looking wonderful.

Commissioner Higgs advised of the County's experience with the golf courses. Commissioner Voltz stated that is one area; all they have to do is one golf course so they can be focused; but maintenance involves a large area, and the companies do not have staff to do all of it. Chairman Scarborough stated he has not seen it work except in the City of Titusville. Commissioner Higgs stated it will never work unless there is good supervision. Chairman Scarborough advised Mr. Minneboo has been out looking at it every few weeks, and it is a waste of staff time. Commissioner Voltz inquired where could the Board get the money to do it in-house. County Manager Tom Jenkins stated the figures provided are estimates which may be high; and it would have to come from the General Fund. Commissioner Voltz stated the initial cost for equipment would be the main thing. Mr. Jenkins stated the number of medians and facilities the County has would require a staff of approximately eight people, and that could be augmented using prisoners to the extent they are available. Commissioner Voltz inquired if prisoners could work with a contractor; with Mr. Jenkins responding if they are trained and it meets the satisfaction of the Sheriff, it is possible. Commissioner Voltz commented on the issue of safety; with Mr. Jenkins responding it would be up to the Sheriff. Commissioner Voltz stated she does not like that at all.

Commissioner O'Brien stated on the golf courses, it has worked out well; with Commissioner Voltz advising it is very focused there. Commissioner O'Brien stated if the Board went back with one contractor or even three contractors, they could work out their subcontracting details on their own, and it could work.

Chairman Scarborough suggested separating North Brevard and using it as an example; requested the Board give him one year to show that it will work; and stated the rest of
the Commissioners will want to follow him in a year. He stated the Board is throwing
throwing money away because the contractors are not performing; he had to take top personnel out to look at weeds which costs the County money; and that is not the way to run the County.

Commissioner Voltz stated one of the Board's goals has been to landscape the roadways to make sure the County is a beautiful place to live; and it is not happening.

Commissioner O'Brien stated MIRA has a contract with FDOT to do all the maintenance on SR 520, Merritt Avenue and a few others; and after six months of negotiation with Mr. Minneboo, both sides decided it would be less expensive to do it without joining forces. Commissioner Voltz stated that is because the County does not have the equipment. Commissioner O'Brien stated it was subcontracted out.

Chairman Scarborough stated he needs the ability to set up a separate crew; it does not work to have someone whose job is cleaning ditches pulling weeds occasionally; there has to be a dedicated crew for landscaping; and if all the resources were put into the crew funded with additional money from the MSTU, it would work.

Mr. Jenkins stated Mr. Nelson strongly requests that Parks and Recreation stay separate from this. Chairman Scarborough stated he needs to keep the crew fully occupied for it to make sense; and if he does not have them fully occupied, he is going to lose. Mr. Jenkins stated the MSTU money cannot be used for the buildings; with Chairman Scarborough responding the MSTU money will be used strictly for the roads. Mr. Jenkins stated there will only be a small crew. Chairman Scarborough stated the crew would get money from the County Departments; it would have total responsibility; and there would be a large enough work force to have the equipment to make it work.

Commissioner Voltz requested an itemized list of necessary equipment to do what Chairman Scarborough suggested.

Chairman Scarborough advised of duplication of equipment; stated if there was a separate entity for maintenance, it would do a better job; and the employees would be dedicated. Commissioner Carlson requested staff provide an overall fiscal impact. Chairman Scarborough inquired if it will not cost the Board a dime, will it let him try it. Commissioner Higgs inquired if the Board will have to add money from CDBG or Local Option Gas Tax, etc. Chairman Scarborough stated he will take all the operations and create a unified landscaping group. Commissioner Higgs stated Mr. Jenkins should do it, not Chairman Scarborough; and before the Board thinks about it, she would want to see the numbers. She stated she does not think it could be done with the current dollars, even if supplemented with the MSTU funds; but she is willing to look at it. Commissioner Voltz requested fiscal impact for the entire County and a list of the needed equipment. Chairman Scarborough stated it will not happen overnight because it is necessary to build up the crew and equipment; but the Board is going to have to look at this because the other things have never worked. Commissioner Higgs requested Chairman Scarborough show her the numbers to prove the concept will work. Chairman Scarborough stated the Board will have to give him the opportunity to prove it. Commissioner Higgs stated she wants to see the numbers first. Chairman Scarborough stated the proof will be when someone drives to District 1 and it looks like a different county. Commissioner O'Brien inquired why does Chairman Scarborough need Board approval; with Chairman Scarborough responding the Board will have to give authority to take funds from County Department budgets and put them into one fund. Commissioner Voltz stated if the money is pulled from the different areas, the Board will see how much it is actually spending. Commissioner Higgs recommended doing a control group experiment; if the numbers in North Brevard fall out looking reasonable, it can be done; in Central and South Brevard, it can go to bid; and after a year or two, the Board can see how it works. Chairman Scarborough stated that is a good way to do it. Commissioner Higgs recommended trying the new bidding process. Chairman Scarborough stated the County employee will do twice the work as the contractor; and numbers will not indicate the attitude. Commissioner Higgs recommended waiting to see what the numbers show.

Commissioner Carlson stated it would have been nice to have Mr. Nelson present. Commissioner Higgs stated Mr. Nelson is happy with his maintenance. Mr. Jenkins stated he discussed this with Mr. Nelson; his perspective is that he uses his employees to do a lot of different things at different parks; and he specifically asked to not be included in the package. He stated this is the Board's medians, buildings and libraries. Commissioner Higgs noted Mr. Nelson uses a lot of contracts with smaller mom and pop companies for mowing, etc. Chairman Scarborough stated if he does not have a big enough mass to deal with, it will be difficult to have the economics of scale; and it is necessary to have the economics of scale to make it work. Commissioner Voltz suggested Chairman Scarborough work it out with Mr. Jenkins and bring it back to the Board. Chairman Scarborough stated it is not just a matter of dollars and cents, but attitude. Commissioner Voltz stated the Board will never know unless it tries. Chairman Scarborough stated if the comparison is run and the same amount is spent on both, but North Brevard looks twice as nice, then the Board will know that it worked.

Mr. Jenkins stated one option was to contract out grass cutting. Chairman Scarborough stated that does not work because the grass cutters tear up the sprinkler heads, and the grass dies before staff can come by. He stated the person who cuts the grass will also be in charge of the sprinkler heads. Commissioner Carlson inquired if it will be possible to find someone familiar with all the specialties. Chairman Scarborough suggested trying that in Central Brevard. Commissioner Carlson stated Commissioners Voltz and Higgs could do it the standard way; with Commissioner Higgs advising she and Commissioner Voltz could do it the enhanced bidding way. Commissioner Carlson stated she and Commissioner O'Brien could go with just the one bid. Chairman Scarborough stated that is a good way to try it; and it would not be that hard on staff.

Commissioner Higgs stated the direction would be to consider multiple actions; and the next time the Board meets Mr. Jenkins could provide the numbers relating to how it could be done. Chairman Scarborough stated it will take 18 months to two years to see how it will turn out.

Commissioner Voltz stated the condition of the Sarno Complex is horrendous; the people do not clean it; and it has been that way for two years.

County Manager Tom Jenkins stated he was not aware there was a problem. He stated historically the County has gone with the low bid on janitorial and grounds maintenance; in grounds maintenance they have identified a need for more selective criteria; and it is possible to only hire commercial cleaning companies that have other major accounts rather than hiring the mom and pop companies.

Commissioner Higgs recommended the County go with a professional cleaning company rather than someone working out of a van, if is a continuous problem. Special Assistant Dot Estes advised they have complained repeatedly for the last two years; ServiceMaster, which is supposed to be professional, did the maintenance previously; and it did the worst job. Commissioner Higgs stated even if the County gets a qualified firm, if it does not write a tough contract and supervise, it will get garbage. Chairman Scarborough stated the people who do the lawn maintenance have a good contract and are supervised; but they are not performing adequately. Commissioner Higgs stated she has a friend who does cleaning for major commercial establishments who told her he could not bid that low and still do the job adequately; and if the Board does not qualify the firms and do something other than taking the low bid, then the County will never get people to do the job. Mr. Jenkins noted ServiceMaster is a nationally recognized leader in the business; and the alternative is to not bid it, but pick good companies and negotiate with them. Commissioner Higgs stated ServiceMaster is a franchise. Chairman Scarborough stated there is not a single bank around with bad landscaping; and the reason is they do not worry about the price, but what it looks like. Commissioner O'Brien stated he is willing to look at picking a contractor and negotiating because low bidding in this situation is not working. Chairman Scarborough inquired if the Board can legally do that. Commissioner Higgs stated the Board can accept proposals. Mr. Jenkins suggested accepting proposals and picking a company based on quality as well as price. Commissioner Higgs stated it should be based on the deal, not just the low bid. Chairman Scarborough stated he would be satisfied trying that before going to the other proposal.

Discussion ensued on accepting proposals, selecting companies based on experience and quality of work, and same method for janitorial services.

Mr. Jenkins stated ServiceMaster is a national legitimate janitorial maintenance company with contracts all over the world. Commissioner Higgs inquired if they are
franchised; with Mr. Jenkins responding probably. Mr. Jenkins inquired if they know
someone who is good, why can they not negotiate with those people. Commissioner Higgs stated that gets into a good old boy mode which the Board does not want; and recommended opening up proposals. Chairman Scarborough stated it is possible to write a contract that allows good people to do less than quality work; and the Board needs to say how it wants the landscaping to look. Commissioner Higgs advised it could let Mr. Minneboo or Mr. Jenkins hire their relatives for a comfortable deal. Mr. Jenkins stated it would be approved by the Board, and not by him; and suggested going out for proposals and making price a secondary consideration. Chairman Scarborough stated the Board wants to have quality work done. Mr. Jenkins stated the proposers will tell the Board what it will take and the level of service they would recommend. Chairman Scarborough stated he does not want that; and he wants the County to look like the best bank in the County does. Mr. Jenkins stated the County will give an end result, and let the proposers tell it what it will take to get to that point.

Commissioner Voltz inquired if a motion is necessary or is consensus enough; with Mr. Jenkins advising it has to come back to the Board. Commissioner Higgs inquired what has to come back to the Board. Mr. Jenkins inquired if the Board wants to see the RFP; with Commissioner Higgs responding no. Chairman Scarborough and Commissioner Voltz stated they definitely want to see the RFP. Mr. Jenkins stated he will bring it to the Board. Commissioner Higgs inquired if that includes lawn maintenance; with Mr. Jenkins responding it includes janitorial, building maintenance, and ground maintenance.

Upon motion and vote, the meeting was adjourned at 3:25 p.m.

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ATTEST: TRUMAN SCARBOROUGH, CHAIRMAN
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA
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SANDY CRAWFORD, CLERK

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