MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA

November 13, 2001

The Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, met in special session on November 13, 2001, at 12:06 p.m. in the Government Center Florida Room, Building C, 2725 Judge Fran Jamieson Way, Viera, Florida. Present were: Chairman Susan Carlson, Commissioners Truman Scarborough, Randy O'Brien, Nancy Higgs, and Jackie Colon, County Manager Tom Jenkins, and County Attorney Scott Knox.

Also present were State Senator Bill Posey, and State Representatives Randy Ball, Mike Haridopolis, Mitch Needleman, and Bob Allen.

The Invocation was given by Commissioner O'Brien.

ANNOUNCEMENT

Chairman Carlson welcomed the Delegation; and advised Senator Howard Futch is unable to be present due to a family emergency.

WAIVER OF SIGN ORDINANCE, RE: A1A ALL AMERICAN WEEKEND

Commissioner O'Brien stated the A1A All American Weekend will be held on November 17 and 18, 2001, on A1A, from Port Canaveral to Patrick Air Force Base; all the merchants will be participating; and advised of scheduled events and activities. He stated the Cities of Cocoa Beach and Cape Canaveral have waived enforcement of Sign Ordinances for this event; and requested the Board waive enforcement of the County's Sign Ordinance in the unincorporated enclaves from Port Canaveral to Patrick Air Force Base.

Motion by Commissioner O'Brien, seconded by Commissioner Colon, to waive the Sign Ordinance from November 13, through November 18, 2001 for temporary signage for the A1A All American Weekend.

Commissioner Higgs inquired if the Board has the right to do that. County Attorney Scott Knox stated it is a public meeting; and it can be done. Commissioner Higgs inquired under the Code who has the right to waive the requirements of the Sign Ordinance; with Mr. Knox advising it is not a matter of waiving, but a matter of not enforcing it.

Chairman Carlson stated it is a special circumstance; and she will support the motion.

Motion by Commissioner O'Brien, seconded by Commissioner Colon, to amend the motion to waive enforcement of the Sign Ordinance from November 13 through 18, 2001 for temporary signage for the A1A All American Weekend event.

Chairman Carlson inquired if there is a condition that all signs will be taken up immediately thereafter; with Commissioner O'Brien responding they will be gone by Monday morning.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered; Commissioner Higgs voted nay.

OPENING COMMENTS

Chairman Carlson stated these have been trying times; and no one feels the heat as much as the Delegation, which has been doing a great job trying to make things happen. She stated it is unfortunate the Special Session did not come to any solution; there will be another Special Session starting November 26, 2001; and the revenue shortfall has been created, in part, by the events of September 11. She stated the Board sent a letter to Senator Posey, with copies to all the other Delegation members, supporting the Florida Association of Counties platform. She stated the State must look at all revenues available in addressing the crisis, and not look to shift more costs and responsibilities to the counties; and the burden of the shortfall in State revenue should not be placed on the backs of local taxpayers. She stated the State must pursue short-term and long-term solutions to the State's fiscal structure as soon as possible; the County has finalized its budget and by law cannot increase the millage any more at this time; and the County has already absorbed cost shifts for the current year for additional Medicaid costs, cuts in recycling grants with no cut in the mandate, and additional court expenses due to the Governor's veto. She stated if the State decides to shift an even greater burden to the counties, it will require a cut in services, delay or elimination of infrastructure improvements, or laying off employees. She stated the State will take a major hit in the area of tourism, not only by people not coming to the State or County, but because of Patrick Air Force Base's closing of A1A and things of that nature. She stated the County is feeling pinches in certain areas; a fair, reasonable solution is needed to the problems that are going to be facing the County; the Delegation has as much say as anyone; and the Board hopes that positive actions will come from the upcoming Special Session.

Senator Bill Posey, Delegation Chairman, stated it has been a pleasure having Carol Laymance on staff to coordinate legislative activities between the Board and the Delegation; and as they progress and recover from the current fiscal position, it will be important to have someone with Ms. Laymance's background to assist in trying to get more points for the home County. He stated many employees perform extraordinarily every year but are not recognized for their work; several years ago one employee went above and beyond the call of duty for the citizens of the County, working with the taxpayers on a project known as the H Canal in Merritt Island; and recognized County employee Ron Jones for his efforts. He presented Mr. Jones with a Florida Friend of the Taxpayer Award plaque; and stated the Delegation is proud of Mr. Jones and what he represents. Regional Stormwater Utility Director Ron Jones stated he looks forward to working with the Delegation in the upcoming year.

DISCUSSION, RE: STATE BUDGET ISSUES

Representative Randy Ball stated the Legislature is not going to throw things down on the counties; last year they fought not to throw the Juvenile Pretrial Detention and Juvenile Assessment Center funding on the counties, which would have had an $83 million impact; and they were so successful with that issue that it has not resurfaced even though they are hearing much about cutting different programs. He stated on the issue of trying to provide vital infrastructure needs of the State, the House position is that one area that has not been hit as bad is nonrecurring revenue; so even though they will be cutting some recurring revenue from recurring programs, the sentiment of the House at this time is to make nonrecurring fixed capital expenditures so that jobs associated with them will not be lost. He stated they may even construct some buildings or other infrastructure where the programs will not come online for a year or a year and a half just to avoid losing jobs at a time when economic stimulus is needed. He stated the State is thinking along the same lines as the County. He advised he is Chairman of the Criminal Justice Appropriations Committee, which is the smallest budget entity, representing 6 to 7%; they are cutting general revenue this year; education, HHS, and Criminal Justice are revenue getters; and in Criminal Justice they are taking approximately $200 million worth of cuts. He stated they are not cutting corrections officers who guard prisoners; but they are going to have to cut the probation programs and community corrections; and that will cause several hundred probation officers to be laid off and the case loads of the remaining officers to go to an undesirable level; so they want to restore those cuts as soon as the economy allows. He stated some supervision case loads will be driven up above 100; but the good news is a positive prison population projection, much lower than was thought, which means having to build fewer prisons. He stated one of the areas they are looking to cut is the Cin-Fins area, which is the system that provides runaway shelters and all the services that are provided outside the runaway shelters; they are not going to cut any runaway shelters, but some of the services that are provided outside will be cut; and that is an area of concern because the people do good work. He stated there will be a strong prioritization; and some things will be cut not because they are bad programs, but because they are lower priority.

Commissioner Colon inquired which probation officers would be targeted; and stated she is petrified that the State is watching the dollars but not realizing the kind of problem it is about to cause with individuals not being supervised. Representative Ball stated the probation officers of sex offenders and certain violent classes of offenders have a Statutorily set case load maximums; and they will not be altered. He stated it will be the general classes of offenders such as bad check writers, burglars, etc. that will be supervised less intensively; and it is still an issue of concern because those without close contact have a greater propensity to re-offend. He stated even though they will cut officers or raise the case load levels, they will need to restore that area as soon as the economy permits. Senator Posey advised he read there were approximately 340 positions that were going to be eliminated and 300 were vacant. Representative Ball stated right now things are in a state of flux; if the House version of the cuts is adopted, there will be approximately 650 positions cut, and 300 may be vacant, so possibly only 300 will be laid off. He stated the Department will make the decisions of who gets laid off; the Legislature will urge them to make sure they lay off as many of the nonessential supervisors and administrators as they can; but a lot of guys on the street will be laid off, even though there are vacant positions to absorb the cuts.

Representative Mike Haridopolos stated with the recession coming, even before September 11, some slowdown in growth was expected; and even though he reads a lot in the newspaper about "slash and cut", there is still a significant increase in the State budget this year. He stated with the tragedy of September 11, they have to look at new responsibilities such as tourism and public safety; the Governor, Senate President, and Speaker of the House have looked at core responsibilities such as health care, education, and infrastructure needs; and a lot of transportation projects are being accelerated. He stated in the last few years there has been an incredible economy; there have been dramatic increases in health care and education spending; this year it will not be possible to increase so much; and that needs to be put into perspective. He stated today they will be looking at a lot of County issues; the County has some pressing needs; the goal of the Legislature has been to reduce the burdensome mandates; and the Governor has been progressive in his measures. He stated the State is still increasing spending, especially in priority items; and sitting on the Budget Council with Representative Ball, he gets the big picture viewpoint on that. He stated there will be some tough times this year because of the tragic events of September 11; but everyone needs to keep their eyes on the ball and make sure the funds are available; and he hopes the School Boards will also look at their reserve funds. He stated there will be a shortfall in education; they are not going to have the expected increase; but they can make some of the events a reality; and maybe next year, there will be an upkick in the economy, as the economists are predicting, so the programs can be fully funded. He stated like a family, in tough times, government needs to be responsible; words like "slashing and cutting" are a bit dramatic and intended to scare people; and recommended using common sense. He stated when they see the "real numbers", they can address this and understand this year's tragedy; and when there is a good economy, they can be more judicious in their funding to take care of core responsibilities. He stated the Governor, Speaker, and Senate President have done that; and their responsibility in the long term should be to make sure when there are good times, there is something for the slowdown economy. He stated this is a positive meeting; and after going through a few parades on November 11, Veterans Day, everyone understands why they are here.

Chairman Carlson inquired if the Legislature will be looking at long-term strategies to deal with these things; with Representative Haridopolos responding with term limits he, Representatives Allen and Needelman, and Senators Futch and Posey will be limited to eight years; but long-term strategies should be the number one goal; and the Governor is looking at that and saying, "how can the size of government be reduced in a positive way, offering better services at a lower price." He advised the State is improving services while trying to reduce the overall workforce in Florida so they can get the resources to the people who truly need them; and commented on food stamps, which go through 14 separate levels before getting to the person who needs the benefit. He stated the vision of the Legislature and the perspective of the Governor is to improve service and make sure the dollars get to the people who need them; they are thinking longer term on the average growth of government; and suggested an index to gauge the growth of government.

Representative Bob Allen stated he serves on the Transportation and Economic Development Appropriations Committee, and is pleased to report some positive things during the current crisis. He stated they are at war; times are tough and there is not enough money; and those facts have brought everyone to the table, and will bring the Legislature back into Special Session. Representative Allen stated they have been able to learn about the budget inside and out; in good times, a lot of his colleagues voted on budgets they did not know much about; and that learning will be beneficial in terms of long-range planning. He stated one thing he learned was that the budget stabilization fund that he was so excited about tapping to make problems go away is not something that can be tapped into like he had hoped; it was explained to him that in the fiscal policy and fiscal management of the money of the State, the budget stabilization fund has to be available to make sure it is possible to do the constitutional duty of balancing the budget at the end; and it cannot be used to fill the budget desires or shortfalls. He stated hopefully in his next six years of service, he will be able to create a budget stabilization fund that can be touched; such fund is needed during the slim periods; and right now, they are not allowed to go after that.

Chairman Carlson inquired if that is because of the time limit in terms of paying back any funds; with Representative Allen responding affirmatively. Representative Allen explained as the budget is prepared and the bills come in, they come in at a different time pace than the different funds; and right now the Comptroller goes into an unused fund in the trust funds and borrows to keep the checkbook in balance, knowing the revenue evaluation committees have said there will be enough money at the end of the fiscal year to make it all come out even like it is supposed to by law. He stated what has happened is the revenue estimating has gotten off-kilter because of the bad economy hit of the terrorist attack and war; now people do not have as much confidence as the Comptroller would need to continue to raid the unused funds in the trust funds to make the checkbook balance; and he has been turning to the budget stabilization fund to make sure he can make ends meet. He stated the Legislature was hoping to take some of the budget stabilization fund to fill in approved budget needs; but that is not going to happen. Chairman Carlson stated that is not a long-term fix; and if money is borrowed from the stabilization fund, it would have to be paid back in five years. Representative Allen stated the other point that was made was the State is spending $3 billion more than it did last year; in Washington if they cannot give someone as much increase as they want, then they cut and slash; and that is not what is happening at all. He stated the growth is requiring more needs to be covered; but there is a larger increase in the budget, so it is a matter of being able to cover those needs and priorities. He stated as to specific areas of transportation and economic development, a fence was put around the transportation and economic development fund so it would not be raided in the budget cuts; and economic development is suddenly a fashionable thing to be talking about because the economy is not booming. He stated the economy's main components are transportation issues and economic development-type activities; and the Governor was correct in putting a fence around the funds when he put his proposals out. He stated the cash flow of the State was tremendously damaged by the airlines stopping when the terrorists hit; 50% of the tourists did not come and that hurt cash flow; and while it is possible, under hindsight, to say the State should not be that dependent on tourists for cash flow, the State has to deal with it now. He stated as the State deals with it in the future, it should pledge to diversify the economy so it is not just dependent on tourism, or it will always be at the mercy of arriving or not arriving tourists. He stated right now the cash flow is a priority issue; they do not want to miss the upcoming high season of Thanksgiving through April; they want to make sure there is visitation at the strongest possible levels; and that is why there is a $20 million program coming forward in the Governor's stimulus package to try and advertise that it is safe to come to Florida, and to capture the driving markets. He stated that is going to be critical to the County; the County is kicking in $250,000, Orange County is putting in $1 million, and other areas are putting in like amounts of money as are some of the individual attractions; and it is important to be smart with that money and not waste it. He recommended leveraging as much as possible; stated Visit Florida has an active program; and suggested tailoring advertising so the front half would be the general message, and the back half would be tailored to the specific area, so the $250,000 gets spent with the $20 million to get good coverage. He stated the other issue is diversification; they have had to temporarily rob some of the accounts to pay for that $20 million; they were asked to cut $48 million in that area, but actually came up with $52 million in the Committee he serves on; and they are doing their fair share. He stated the other exciting aspect is the transportation dollars; they want to make sure the County and the area are in line for what they need to help the economic stimulus; and there is an emphasis on getting that money out on the street as fast as possible, so it can re-prime the economy. He stated one area is $530 million that is being expended under a bond mechanism to try to put transportation projects on that are ready to go and get that workforce going; plus it will have the impact of having good infrastructure that is on the five-year plan, but will all be started this year. He stated under that is where one would want to start looking closely for the increased funding that could come from the federal government, which has been interested in increasing the train issue and ground transportation nationwide; the federal government wants to put approximately $700 million out; and Florida needs to make sure it can get some of that for the Amtrak issue. He stated it might be that the federal government can participate stronger in that and make it less onerous for the State; but the State should be ready to try to match that; and he would like to pursue that along with his colleagues. He stated on the Tops Program; the list was pared back slightly, but the County has two or three projects on it. He stated Tops is the special monies used for extraordinary transportation/economic development-related projects; airports are getting a priority right now because of security issues; and commented on the commitment to the Spaceport, PECO dollars, and transportation dollars. He stated he and the rest of the Delegation are committed to making sure their area is part of the economic development so it does not happen in some other part of the State.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he is pleased with what the Delegation is telling the Board; and advised of a columnist in St. Petersburg who predicts a downward spiral with people becoming unemployed, going on welfare, and turning to crime where eventually the whole society falls apart. He stated the answer is not to let that happen; and as they charge the economy with the projects and put the money in the front end, they are keeping the economy by building tomorrow. He stated the projects are going to be things that people decades later will be enjoying; they are not wasted; but if the economy deteriorates, and the County pays welfare and hires more police officers, it has basically lost. He stated this is not a losing situation; it is a winning situation; and expressed appreciation to Representative Allen.

Representative Mitch Needelman commented on the advantages of having Carol Laymance assisting; and stated it is not only a good investment for the County, but a resource for the Delegation. He stated it is not all gloom; he sits on the Appropriations Committee for Criminal Justice, which is chaired by Representative Ball; and Representative Ball has covered the bases pretty well already; but there are some areas he would like to touch on. He stated in looking at the budget cuts and positions, there are 289 positions that will probably be gone in Probation and Parole; but they are pushing hard to look at the administrators and supervisors so the people actually carrying the workload are not the ones being targeted. Representative Needelman stated for the last four of five years, there has been a tremendous increase in the upper level government, with a jump from 23 to 24% increase in personnel, most of which has been at the upper level; and those are the cuts being looked at. He stated they are measuring the core missions of the agencies; and commented on a $2.1 million test pilot program for South Dade and Broward Counties to include attorneys in the Guardian Ad Litem Program, which is the kind of thing being cut. He stated the programs being cut are ones that have not started yet; and they are not centered around the core mission of the agency. He stated the Delegation has been dedicated to making sure the costs are not passed on to the city and county levels; that is the position of the Delegation; and they are committed to putting those resources in the County.

Senator Posey stated according to the Wallace Report, even after all the cuts in the budget, there will still be a 7.68% increase in State spending this year; so while they are talking about over a billion dollars in cuts, there are still billions of dollars of new money that are going to various districts within the State. He stated it is not called the House of Representatives because Brevard County gets its way every time an issue comes up; it is called the House of Representatives because everyone has a voice there; and it is government by consensus. He stated he read a quote in a Tallahassee newspaper where Representative Ausley said her worst nightmare had been realized, and that was learning that the State's population is growing faster than the size of government; but to him that is an accomplishment in government efficiency; and that is an illustration that everyone in Tallahassee does not think alike. He stated while the Delegation represents its constituents' view about the issues, that view is not always shared; and it is not as simple as the Delegation pushing buttons to make the outcome what it wishes. He stated there is a lot of sentiment right now, which is particularly strong in the media, about shifting the burden of revenues away from tourism; but the problem with doing that unilaterally is that whatever burden is taken away from the tourists paying is shifted to the fulltime residents. He stated he does not know any working families or seniors who would not like to have a 7.6% increase in revenue this year; but he knows a lot of them would not like to have the burden taken off of tourism and put in their laps. He stated if the State is not dependent on tourist revenue, then it will have to get the revenue from somewhere else; what the State does not get from the tourists, it will have to get from the fulltime residents; and there is significant hesitation on the part of a lot of the Legislators to do that. He stated the last statistical data given in Tallahassee shows a $6 to $7 sales tax return on a dollar's worth of advertising for tourism in the State; the worst thing would be to abandon efforts to promote tourism and abandon any money for those efforts; and as they hear more doom and gloom, they need to keep in mind that no amount of terrorism will make it warm in the north this year. He stated as the American public becomes hesitant to fly internationally, that only inures to the speedy recovery of the country's economy; so it is not all bad news. He stated they expect things to recoil and look better in the not too distant future; it will not be as easy or as comfortable as it was before September 11; but it is not a long-term downward spiral.

Representative Ball stated they are saying that government is increasing, but not as fast as they thought it would; yet they are talking about laying off hundreds; and one would think that if government is increasing that would not be happening; and there is a contradiction. He advised it is the programs that are dependent on general revenue that are being hit more than the ones that are dependent on trust funded revenues; general revenue is discretionary, so HHS, education and criminal justice will take a disproportionate part of the cuts; and while government in general is increasing, those areas he just mentioned are going to have to lay some people off.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he and Mr. Spearman had a conversation with one of the attorneys from Wal-Mart; and Wal-Mart is viewing this as an opportunity. He stated it is not only government but major corporations that are still very solvent and capable of viewing this as an opportunity because interest rates are so low. He stated there will not be loss of civilization from this; but those who are wise may find opportunities to create the foundation for wealth in the future. Lobbyist Guy Spearman advised he happens to represent Wal-Mart; and their plans for Florida are for great expansion; but they are an exception to the rule in that their growth continues up not only percentage wise but in real dollars as well. Commissioner Scarborough stated what he heard was internationally they are going full throttle; this is an opportunity; and if government takes that same attitude, it will be a winner, and it will not be dealing with how to fund welfare programs as everything deteriorates. He stated they can either do it at government level or have the predictions come true concerning deterioration of society.

Commissioner O'Brien distributed copies of an article; stated right now the MPO is discussing Amtrak stations in Cocoa and Melbourne; the entire route from Jacksonville to Miami would involve a lot of money; but the article from the Friday newspaper says, "Panel tells Amtrak to plan for liquidation." He stated the Federal Oversight Panel declared Friday that Amtrak would not meet a congressional deadline for achieving financial self-sufficiency, and that forces Amtrak to draw up a plan for its own liquidation. He stated Amtrak had its inaugural service in 1971; it was predicted at the time that Amtrak would break even financially in three years; but it has never broken even financially, and never will. He stated he knows the State is looking at spending approximately $45 million for Amtrak in Florida; he is concerned that Congress has been chasing this white elephant for 30 years; it seems like everyone is jumping on board; and there may be some good reasons for that, but he has not found any yet. He stated one reason given is that it will reduce the amount of traffic on I-95; but in order to reduce the traffic so it would have any effect on I-95, it would have to reduce it by 30,000 to 40,000 cars per day; and he does not think there will be 80,000 passengers a day on the train. He stated the train from Palm Beach to Miami has been a white elephant since the day they poured the first drop of cement; the trains are empty all weekend; and it has been a financial drain on Miami-Dade and Broward Counties. He stated the Max Brewer bridge needs to be done; that is real transportation and will cost approximately $27 million; and he would rather see $27 million put into a bridge that transports thousands of people every day, including tourists, than see money go into Amtrak. He suggested the Commissioners read the article and get minutes from the Committee meeting; and stated that may open their eyes about Amtrak.

Representative Ball stated he has not been out ardently supporting Amtrak; he has been conspicuous in his non-opposition and nothing more; and Commissioner O'Brien has some valid points. He stated people have questioned the number of stations, but the question behind it is whether there will even be an Amtrak; and he has recommended those wanting a series of stations to get together on the local level and approach the Governor and DOT Secretary about making it part of the overall strategic transportation plan of Florida. He stated he has stepped out of the picture because it is necessary to be careful about going after a program that may not be there; and commented on the traffic on I-95. He stated the State has looked at it, but has the same reservations; Commissioner O'Brien may be thinking of high-speed rail also; his points are well taken; and the Delegation is not hard charging to spend that money.

Commissioner O'Brien stated he is just trying to remind everyone that Amtrak is again on the verge of liquidation; and inquired after 30 years, when is it time to start pulling the plug.

Senator Posey stated he would love to see Amtrak come through the County, if it stays in business; and any allusion that Amtrak money could be traded off for a bridge in Brevard County is not realistic. He stated the $40 million for Amtrak funding was possible because the train would run through 20 counties and affect approximately ten other counties, so there was a coalition of Legislators who were interested in pushing this; and that is how that was eased to the forefront. He reiterated as long as there is an Amtrak and the federal government is funding it, he would be delighted if it came through the neighborhood and stopped at a couple of places; and he sees no downside to that.

Chairman Carlson stated she appreciates the comments of Representative Ball, Senator Posey and Commissioner O'Brien in that it could be looked at as a white elephant in these times where people are looking for alternative means of travel; it will take a huge act of Congress to get people out of their vehicles and onto trains; but if Amtrak does come through the area, she would certainly support that.

Senator Posey stated every study he has seen on mass transportation says people will not use mass transportation until it is too inconvenient for them to drive their own cars; and that is why sometimes a crowded two-lane road is widening and made into a crowded four-lane road. Chairman Carlson stated she would rather put the dollars toward a high-speed rail scenario than continually widen roads. Senator Posey stated the point is people will not use mass transportation to the extent required to afford it as a self-paying alternative until it is too inconvenient to use their own vehicles; and right now I-95 is approaching that point.

Commissioner Scarborough stated Mike Snyder, DOT Secretary for District 5 has said there will be six-laning of I-95; and that will be nice for generations to come. Representative Allen stated the engineering for the 2008-2011 segment that was already planned for is being advanced under this expenditure, but the actual turning of dirt has not been decided to go faster; it was scheduled for 2008-2011; there is a segment in Brevard County; and they are having another meeting on December 4. Chairman Carlson inquired if anyone knows what the advanced date might be; with Representative Allen responding December 4 would be a good time to find out. Commissioner Scarborough stated the MPO has been actively seeking support of other MPO's up and down the State; they do not mind getting the groups together; and requested if there is something that looks like a possibility, they be informed at the MPO level. Representative Allen
stated the first thing the Delegation did was make it known that it wanted to look at safety improvements on the road; and that came through with a $2 million figure this year. He stated Representative Ball chaired the Delegation, and it went forward on it; and he thinks they can get the same results again if they keep pushing forward about the six-laning. He stated he asked specifically about the construction schedule, but was told the engineering schedule would advance for the 2008-2011; and maybe it can be moved up.

DISCUSSION, RE: REDISTRICTING

Chairman Carlson stated three of the legislators were involved in the Redistricting Committee; and requested comments from Senator Posey, Representative Ball, and Representative Needelman.

Senator Posey stated the Constitution requires that every ten years every House, Senate, and Congressional district boundary be redrawn; that means they will be drawing 120 House districts and every House member will be up for re-election; and they will be drawing 20 Senate districts, and every Senate member will be eligible for re-election, half for two-year terms and the other half for four-year terms. He stated every Congressional district will be redrawn; there are 23 Congressmen; due to the increase in population, they will be adding two new Congressional districts; and the thought is that one will probably end up in South Florida and the other will be in Central Florida, so Central Florida will probably gain a little bit of legislative clout. He stated there has been a lot of discussion in public hearings; Representative Needelman has attended every one of the 21 or 22 public hearings around the State; and he, and Representatives Ball, Allen, and Haridopolos have also attended some of the meetings. He stated they have tried to get input from all the localities throughout the State to see how they felt about redrawing the district lines because there was a thought at one time that a committee should be appointed to redraw the lines instead of the Legislature redrawing the lines; and the League of Women Voters advanced a petition to have that done by a committee of appointees. He stated the downside is that there is nobody completely unbiased in redrawing districts; anyone applying for the job would have preconceived notions about how they would want it done; and since it is one of the most important things that Legislators do, and because they will be meeting in special session just to do that, there is accountability because if the citizens do not like the way it has been done, they can vote the people out of office that did it. He stated the most naïve approach would be to have 120 rectangular House districts, 40 rectangular Senate districts and 25 similar shaped Congressional districts; the way the population is laid out with 80% living on the coastlines, it is not possible to have consistent districts that are symmetric; and they have tried to plug that into the software, but it does not work. He stated the districts will be based on population; there will be smaller districts of irregular size where there are more dense populations; and they will try to respect county and municipal boundaries where possible, but there are no perfectly square counties or cities, so the tracts will be laid out based on where people live. He stated more than ever before the thoughts and feelings of the population of the State have been taken into consideration; people are saying they want more municipal boundaries to be considered; and most of the people have said they are happy with the people that represent them now. He stated it makes it hard for Legislators, even if they could clear up the definition of "district" to jettison people who clearly like to be represented by their elected official.

Representative Randy Ball stated as Co-Chairman of the House Redistricting Committee, he went to every meeting but one; it was a fair and open process; and there is a website where people can read a transcription of every meeting, so they can deduce for themselves the principles by which the State should be redistricted. He stated what he has learned is that people want all of the districts to be compact; they do not like salamanders; a salamander can be rounded out, but not at the expense of contiguous, compact districts, unless the salamander unites a community of interest, either rural, racial, or beachside, in which case, the salamander can be left; the districts should be mathematically equal; all politics should be removed from the process; and districts should not be drawn just to get someone re-elected, but no local delegation should be touched. He stated the citizens of Florida have spoken with one voice and the process is going to be easy. He stated the way it was done ten years ago was to have a series of meetings across the State; after they took public input, the Legislature hired someone from Washington to draw the lines; there was no process or rules; and it ended up in court for six months. He stated lawsuits are already lining up; at every meeting there were scripted questions that were asked as bait to make them say something to get into court; so they will be sued. He stated the lawsuits have been planned for six months; but the process has been open; for $20 the public can get the software, draw their own districts, and submit them; the Legislators can draw their own districts and submit the plans in amendment form; and the process will prevail. He stated there is no reason they should be in special session for six months like they were ten years ago; and it is going to be a much better process. He noted not everyone will be pleased; and gave the example of Collier County, which is grabbed in part by an east coast district. He stated with those kinds of districts, where totally dissimilar groups are connected, there will probably be some correction; and it will be a good process this year.

Representative Mitch Needelman advised he attended all the meetings, and would like to put a stop to some rumors; there is no pre-plan at this time; all the rumors about maps already being drawn in a back room or behind closed doors, did not happen; no maps were drawn on napkins in restaurants; and he did not see any secret meetings. He recommended putting rumors aside; and stated the process has been open, fair, and very inclusive. He stated everybody who came to one of the meetings had a chance to speak; some meetings lasted almost five hours; and some of the meetings got nasty because people had preconceived ideas that the maps had already been drawn. He stated they got hit for not having maps to show; but inquired how can they be fair about the process of public input if the maps have already been drawn. He stated the whole idea behind the process was to let the public have its input so the Legislature knows what the public is looking for. He stated there has been a big push to keep communities of interest together; and advised of comments made in the panhandle, the Keys, and east and west coast. He stated the message is coming from both sides of the aisles; no one, whether Democrat or Republican, has been excluded from speaking, having access to the software or anything else in the process; and it has been fair across the board. He stated Representatives and Senators have the right to file a bill now if they wish; so they were very inclusive to make sure they included all the House and Senate members in the process. He stated they got hit a couple of times because they did not have as many meetings, but they did go across the State; for the first time in history software is being offered for $20, so anyone can sit down with a computer and prepare a map of what they wish to see; and if they cannot do it that way, they can do it the old fashioned way and mail it in. He stated they gathered the information, listened to the public input, and will be in the process in session in early January to draw these things up; so if anyone wants to have input, they should do it. He stated as a freshman legislator, he wanted to make sure he was very much part of the process from step one all the way through; reiterated there were no locked doors, no maps on napkins, and no hidden maps; and advised now is the time for input, if the County has particular issues or concerns.

Commissioner Colon inquired if Representative Needelman has any idea how the County is looking so far; with Representative Needelman responding District 31 needs to grow by over 12,000 people; Representative Ball's District has to grow by approximately 15,000 or 16,000; Representative Allen has to lose about 22,000 people; and Representative Haridopolos is right on the money, within the 2%. Representative Needelman stated there will be some shifts in Brevard County to accommodate the numbers to the north end; and he is looking for suggestions and ideas.

Chairman Carlson inquired if there will be a facilitator or other expert to help lead the discussions; and advised that is how the County's redistricting committee worked. Representative Ball stated they have not made any hard decisions yet; in the public hearings they listened to public comment; in Tallahassee, there would normally be time for public input, but that has not been determined; and he does not know if there will be a facilitator. He stated individual interest groups and constituents can contact a Representative and help craft an amendment; and those amendments will be submitted at committee meetings and be voted on.

Commissioner Scarborough stated some people in the County have yet to pick up on the discussion of having two Congressmen instead of one; and requested someone explain the dynamics of what that may mean for the County. Senator Posey stated in Indian River County, they said they just wanted one Senator although they now have two; they wanted one State Senator and one State Representative so everyone would know who their legislators were; and they thought that would be more effective. He stated he does not know when the dynamics changed, but suddenly they are hearing they no longer want only one Senator but want to continue to have two and want two House members because it has occurred to them that two voices in each chamber in Tallahassee is better than one; and he suspects many counties will feel the same way about Congressional representation. He stated it may be convenient to have to remember only one name, but if there are effective representatives, it is better to have that overlap. He stated every House district, every Senate district, and every Congressional district should ideally be the same population; and House Districts should be around 130,000 in population, Senate districts approximately 400,000, and Congressional districts at 633,000, so there is going to be a lot of overlap. He stated there is never going to be three House districts that exactly overlap one Senate district; and the benefit is that it removes a lot of parochialism. He stated if there is a Congressman representing one county and no more than one county, which is possible in South Florida where there are large populations, they are very parochial and may not be much of a team player for the Florida delegation because their interest is very narrow and self-centered; and it is the same way with House and Senate districts. He stated the overlap that our founding fathers had that at first blush looks like a confusing maze that does not make sense, makes an enormous amount of sense when the dynamic is understood that it involves perhaps a Senate district and five different House members having a part thereof and creating a team to advance the issue of that particular Senate or House district; and the same thing applies to the Congressional districts. Commissioner Scarborough stated the County may end up with two Congressmen; it is going to be a profound change in the way the County has been represented in Congress previously; and he appreciates the explanation because some people do not understand the significance of having part of the County represented by one Congressman and the rest by another.

Senator Posey stated that could well be the state of affairs within a year because they do not know where the new districts will be; but to get a clear understanding, it is necessary to get the big picture of where the Congressional district is; and gave the example of a district taking in the north half of Brevard County, but being centered in Palatka, which would not inure to the benefit of Brevard County. He stated if it was closer to something centered in Seminole or Orange County, that would be a more workable dynamic because there are groups of common interest; but right now there is no way of telling where they are going to be because no templates have been initiated yet. He stated he does not know how it will be sorted out; and the committees in the House and Senate have not decided whether there will be a new district in Central Florida and one in South Florida, although it looks apparent.

Representative Ball stated the danger with having multiple representation is if each person represents a small part of Palm Bay, for instance, Palm Bay cannot get them out of office through the election process, then fragmentation is bad; if it is a major portion of the County, that could be a good thing with two voices representing the County and the Space Coast; but if it is a small part that nobody cares about it, that is where it is necessary to be careful. Senator Posey stated in Rockledge there are two State Senators and three State Representatives representing some part of the City; but one State Senator only represents one precinct; and there was consternation a few years ago between City management and the Senator's office, which said since it only represented one precinct, it did not care what the City thought. He stated if the slice is too small, they would not have a voice as a voting block at election time to have a significant impact on the person representing them.

The meeting recessed at 1:25 p.m. and reconvened at 1:38 p.m.

DISCUSSION, RE: BREVARD COUNTY 2002 LEGISLATIVE REQUESTS

Chairman Carlson stated Legislative Coordinator Carol Laymance has put together an updated synopsis of the 2002 Legislative requests; and she would be interested in finding out more about reform of State school concurrency requirements, which is the modification of Chapter 163, Florida Statutes, to enable local governments to adopt school concurrency programs in a manner comparable to other services such as transportation. She inquired does the Delegation have any idea of the status of the Growth Management Commission and if it is going to convene this next session, and whether there are any updates. She stated this issue has been in front of the Board several times over the last few months in terms of school overcrowding; and there is community interest in the item. She stated she knows Governor Bush has been very interested in growth management issues and reform; and inquired if there is anything significant going on.

Senator Posey stated the last growth management bill that went through the House and Senate fell apart on this one component; he understands why it is of concern to the Board and the Legislature; the problem is one size does not fit all; and what may be a solution for Brevard County may not be a legitimate solution in Seminole or Dade County. He stated by the time discretion to implement the growth management program is returned to the local level, it hits the "who shot john" crossroad; and advised of the example of Barnes Boulevard in Rockledge and whose responsibility it is to say there can be no more development until improvements can be made and therefore assume financial responsibility. He stated that shows the problem with coming up with a Tallahassee-based formula for deciding how local issues should be resolved; there is not one solution because everything is so different and the circumstances around it are unique; and he would not mind having some dialogue about the Barnes Boulevard issue so everyone can understand.

Chairman Carlson stated the Board can have that discussion; but she wants to carry the school overcrowding issue one extra step. She stated all the conversation through the last session was about full cost accounting and then the association with school overcrowding; she understands the issues and that there needs to be more local control; but she is interested in full cost accounting; and inquired if anyone has heard anything about that piece of the growth management program. Senator Posey responded he is not aware that it is a key component driving a growth management reform piece of legislation.

Commissioner Higgs stated what she would like to see is the County and the School Board have a chance to work the issues out, as with individual municipalities and the School Board; under the current law, there has to be a countywide agreement, which makes it difficult because one size does not fit all in every situation; and if the individual jurisdictions could work out those issues as they do with other concurrency issues, it may be possible to deal with the overall problem, while having individual fixes.

Representative Ball inquired if the Florida Association of Counties has that proposal or a specific draft for legislation to solve the problem before the Legislature; with Chairman Carlson responding not that she knows of. Representative Ball stated that would be good to have; he does not know if there is a vehicle out there right now in bill form or what leadership plans to do; but school concurrency is the issue; and it would be helpful if those on a local level, including the FAC, could bring their suggestions. He stated he does not remember seeing anything coming to him from FAC on this issue; this is an issue that must be solved; and he does not know of a prospective solution yet. He stated if the Board has advice, it should give it to him because this is going to be a priority in any growth management action; and he does not know the status of any vehicle at this time.

Commissioner Higgs stated it could be treated as are many of the other concurrency issues, where the level of service is established by the individual jurisdictions; in this case it would be between the School Board and the individual jurisdiction; and those are set by the jurisdictions in their interlocal agreements or comprehensive plans. She stated concerning school concurrency the law has forced the County, which has multiple jurisdictions, to try to set those standards; and they might have a chance at working at those if it could work individually as jurisdictions with the School Board.

Senator Posey stated one component of the last growth management reform package, through strict interpretation, would have allowed school boards to trump the growth and management plans of county commissions, which was not appropriate; and suggested working out a connection between the counties and the school boards that would be a match for large districts as well as small ones. He stated there are school districts with as few as 5,000 students, and others with student populations of 150,000 students; and Brevard County has historically fall in the middle. He advised the funding formula is a 26-step formula, which is very complex and outdated; and it needs to be changed. He stated the problem with changing it is that when it is not advantageous to the people to whom it is currently advantageous, there is resistance to change; and it may not be fair. He stated it has not been fair to Brevard County for years; and explained the funding components of sparsity and density. He stated three years ago for the first time all the money was compressed into one pot and funding was started from the middle out, which kind of evened things; and they have been trying for at least four years to redraw the entire formula to make it more student-based or size-based so every student would be funded more fairly. He stated in certain parts of the State, the cost of living is greater than in other parts; and that is a component of the formula now; that money gets put in on the front end and then continues to be used as a base computation as it goes through the other mathematical equations that end up with the funding per student that finally comes out at the end.

Commissioner Higgs stated she is just beginning to understand the complexities of the issues involved with school funding, how schools are allocated, the number of seats, and those kinds of issues; and if the problems were easy to solve, they would have already been solved. She stated what they have encountered is an opportunity through an interlocal agreement to work with the School Board; there was no opportunity through the existing State law and school concurrency to move the County that way because of the multi multi-jurisdictional nature of the current law; and if there is some way that individual school boards can work with individual counties and other jurisdictions to resolve some of the issues, it would move the whole dialogue forward. She stated getting into all the funding formulas and those kinds of things are parts of individual concurrency methodologies; but what would be appropriate is to see the whole formula for concurrency such that individual jurisdictions could work with the school board, and those kinds of interlocal things could be worked out.

Chairman Carlson stated the crux to all the discussions working with the School Board is that it is not in a position, because of State Statute, to project for growth in student population; the School Board has to allow overcrowding to occur for at least one year before it can compensate for those students; and meanwhile the level and quality of education goes down.

Senator Posey stated that is why they are trying to redraft the formula; there has been a lot of infighting in the Legislature over doing that; and commented on having it redrawn by people outside of academia and the present formula benefiting larger areas with larger numbers of people.

Commissioner Higgs stated they would not have to resolve the formula issues to have a school concurrency law that could be dealt with on the local level with the school board; parameters could be set in terms of level of service that could be outside some of the funding issues in terms of class size, school size, and number of square feet per student; and those things could be resolved at the local level without having to get into the formula issues, which may need to be resolved at another level. Senator Posey stated it is difficult to get a legislative consensus because of the underlying impact it would have on formulas; for each and every problem, there is a simple and short answer; and the only problem is the answer is always wrong because none of it is short or simple.

Commissioner O'Brien stated Brevard County wants a much higher standard of education for all children; if grammar school "X" which is at full capacity at 700 is at 702 students, but because of building permits that contractors come in for to build a development, has 795 students in September, it will have to bring in portables; and explained the problems with portables having to be evacuated in storms. He stated in November 2001 in Viera, another 126 homes are going to be built, which will mean a certain number of children; and it should be possible to forecast that and at least contract for expansion of schools before those students get there. He stated these children are being cheated out of a good education because of the portable situation; and commented on the ramifications of having to evacuate portables. He stated it is not only disruptive to the school to have to evacuate; but in the psychology of overcrowding it shows that some children feel their own space is being taken up and they cannot concentrate. He stated he is hoping the Delegation can find a way to preempt overcrowding of schools; close to 65% of the schools in the County are overcrowded; and the resolution is still two to five years off. He inquired how many children will be affected by that kind of overcrowding, especially in portables.

Commissioner Colon stated the Board has been faced with this issue for the last couple of months; it has been hard because everyone is saying the Board should not be concerned about school capacity; and the same people who are now struggling because of the overcrowded schools are the same ones that the Delegation represents. She stated those people are upset because the schools are overcrowded; they are almost saying that the elected officials are letting this happen; but when the Board goes to the School Board, it finds that the School Board's hands are tied by regulations from Tallahassee, so they are trying to figure out what to do. She inquired if they should ask Tallahassee to allow individual jurisdictions to have interlocal agreements; and stated this is important to the County because it is affecting rezoning issues that will potentially end up in court. She stated people are saying the Board should mind its own business because it is not the School Board; but these things are affecting the County, its quality of life, and the education being given to the children. She noted Representative Haridopolos is an educator; she does not know if he has gotten any feedback on how serious the problem is in Brevard County; but the County is growing rapidly. She stated when Mel Martinez was Chairman of the Orange County Commission he took the lead in saying enough is enough and something has to be done; even the Governor backed him; and the problem is so complex that they need help from the Legislature because they do not have the answers. She stated it has to be a partnership because it is not just a School Board problem.

Representative Haridopolos stated there was a special session a few years ago that appropriated billions of dollars for school construction; the biggest debate is not how much is being spent on education, but how the education dollar is being spent; and that is the biggest problem. He commented on the $33 million "crystal palace" in Broward County that housed district administrators, but is now being sold; and stated it is time to lead by example. He stated the issue is to make sure the money is getting into the classrooms and in the students' hands; he was just at Satellite High School earlier today in a portable; and it really compounds the
problem. He stated this is a complex problem; but if they look at the big picture in education it is how to get the money into the classroom; and he is delighted by the Governor's progressive look at this which questions how to reduce the middle man. He stated the biggest building in Tallahassee is the administrative building for the Department of Education; and suggested looking at all the things that eat the education dollar before it hits the classroom. He stated the Legislature has tried to take on the education establishment; it will not happen overnight; and the first leadership step is how to look at administrators and reduce overhead cost. He stated
given the incredible amount of money that has been put toward education in the last few years alone, if the answer was as easy as money, the problems would have been solved. He stated there are issues that need to be discussed; they need to put on pressure and lead by example; and it is imperative that the Department of Education look at itself first. He stated he talks to teachers every day; administrators are putting more burdens on teachers to justify their jobs; this is going to be a complex component; and the Legislature is stuck in the middle trying to find the middle ground so Brevard County truly gets its fair share. He stated it is not the individual schools that are wasting money; it is the administrative overhead costs; and that is why he put some bills together that said if the administrators do not meet their responsibilities, they should be put in portables so they will understand what it is like not to have a legitimate complex. He advised of Franklin Delano Roosevelt's example during the Great Depression in giving administrators pay and pension cuts; stated they are going through rough times; and it is incumbent on them to put that alternative out. He stated the money is not going to the classroom even though there are billions of dollars of new spending; and if that is attacked first, money will rain down so teachers can be paid more and it will be possible to get rid of portables.

Representative Randy Ball inquired when the Board talks about school concurrency, is it talking about when a school is built, making sure the construction of supporting roadways and services has been coordinated with local government or what does it mean by concurrency. Commissioner Higgs stated when a house or development is built, facilities have to be provided concurrent to the demand, so the road will be there when the subdivision is built; that is concurrency; and the Board is saying when a subdivision is built, there should be educational facilities built concurrent to the demand. She stated there are levels of standards; the Comprehensive Plan has levels of service for solid waste, roads, parks, etc.; the Department of Community Affairs approves those levels of service; and she is saying establish Brevard County as a jurisdiction, in conjunction with the School Board, so that school facilities will be provided concurrent with the demand, just like the State allowed the County to establish levels of service for solid waste and roads. Representative Ball inquired about settling the question of the funding stream with that. Commissioner Higgs responded they would establish a level of service that is acceptable to Brevard County for the school system, in conjunction with the School Board; those levels then would have to be provided in order for development and growth to continue; and it does not necessarily get into the funding formulas. Representative Ball stated it sounds like those most affected are localities; the Florida Association of Counties and the cities do not have any idea because it is so complex; and if there are proposed solutions he has not seen them. Commissioner Higgs stated the proposed solution is very simple; instead of having State law that says all counties and cities must come together with a concurrency plan, it should allow the local jurisdictions to establish their levels of service. Representative Ball inquired if a new subdivision was going to be built, and the School Board said it did not have funding for the necessary school, would the Board say no development; with Commissioner Higgs responding yes, until that concurrent level of service could be provided. Commissioner Higgs stated instead of the school concurrency law requiring all jurisdictions, which it requires today, the Board is asking to be allowed to work those agreements with the School Board. Representative Ball stated he does not know all the opposing arguments, but for something that sounds so simple not to pass, there have got to be a lot of meritorious reasons.

Chairman Carlson stated there are a lot of complex issues; but what Commissioner Higgs is trying to say is each jurisdiction can have its levels of service in its comprehensive plans; and the Board needs to have that door opened to work with the School Board and have agreements to define quality of life in the community. She stated it is not an easy fix, but is something that will take an extensive amount of thought.

Representative Bob Allen stated he worked through the Palm Beach model when he worked in that area and watched that system go; the term of the urban service line came up; and the concurrency definition was a little different in that it was more of a school siting act, and if a school could be put in a certain place where there were no urban services. He stated the School Board is a separate constitutionally-elected body that has the responsibility to place schools and supply the educational needs; and the school board might get a great deal for donated acreage in the middle of nowhere, place a school there, and development would follow; but the question was catching up with roads, sewer, etc. He stated that was the argument in Palm Beach County; it was not necessarily whether there were enough classrooms, but did they want to spread growth based on siting schools; and that is the genesis of the Palm Beach issue of concurrency. He stated later under Mel Martinez, Orange County brought forward the issue of when there is already saturation, how much can be permitted to hit an existing impact on existing schools before enough is enough. Commissioner Higgs stated that is not a concurrency issue; with Representative Allen advising it becomes a concurrency issue. Commissioner Higgs stated it is a totally separate issue prior to zoning; so they are two separate issues. Representative Allen inquired what is hindering the School Board from walking over to the Planning Department and looking at the maps, and then going on with its budget to make sure schools are built in accordance with the County's plan, and why does a law have to be set that says something beyond what it says now, which is that everyone should get together and have a concurrent plan. He stated the acceptable levels have already been set; classes should meet growth; and if the School Board cannot come to the County to find out where growth is going that has already been permitted, he does not understand why it is so mysterious.

Commissioner O'Brien stated that goes back to what he said earlier; the School Board can look at a map and observe it is zoned for 500 families, but since not one shovel of dirt has been turned over, it cannot build a school and expect students to come. He stated the laws were written to prevent school boards from doing that; some had done that in the past; and commented on the rules, which prevent construction until head counts in September. He stated that is the biggest problem; so schools end up with another 100 students this year, another 100 next year, and at 200 over capacity with all the portables out there, they are still planning how to build the addition. Chairman Carlson stated the School Board is very aware of the zoning; and the County has been working with it; but unfortunately, that is the piece that stops it.

Representative Allen stated the Board is saying they cannot count heads until students show up at the door; he is saying count heads by what is approved as soon as the building permits are issued; and inquired why they cannot be counted then, and is the Board asking for a law to allow them to count sooner. Chairman Carlson stated the School Board uses a formula for three units equals one child, but she does not know if that is a State formula. Representative Allen suggested the County Planning Department send a memo advising it just permitted a new subdivision for a certain number of units so the School Board can activate its formula; and inquired what is the Legislature going to do that is going to make any difference other than giving more money, which it has already done. Commissioner Higgs stated the County is going to establish an interlocal agreement with the School Board that says it will plan in advance of approving additional zoning and Comprehensive Plan changes, so it can get its input and concurrence before approving a new development; but the concurrency issue comes in because there are large numbers that are already approved; and requested the County Attorney clarify.

County Attorney Scott Knox stated he has not personally researched the issue, but the School Board has advised that the Department of Education has a set of rules that says they cannot build schools until they know that the population is there to support the new schools, so they are always running behind; and gave an example of an overcrowded school in Suntree, a new school built in Viera as a result of that overcrowding, the new school being overcrowded as a result of additional growth, and the rules at the State level prohibiting the School Board from anticipating the new growth. Representative Allen inquired if the growth management concurrency law that the Board would like the Legislature to perfect would allow them to start counting sooner; with Mr. Knox responding that is what the Legislature has to do if the School Board is going to be allowed to anticipate and provide for growth; and it has to be allowed that flexibility at the State level.

Representative Needelman stated he would want to make sure he does not turn the School Board into a zoning or development board; and that is where he sees Commissioner Higgs going with some of this when she says input before giving a permit, allowing development, or changing the zoning. Commissioner Higgs stated the Board is going to look to the School Board for the condition of the schools in the area prior to making the decision; the Board will be making the decisions, similar to what Orange County has been doing; and if there are rezonings that will add additional density, the Board will know that prior to making a decision. She advised the Comprehensive Plan says the Board will know what it is doing to the schools; and it is the Board's responsibility to be sure it is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and not putting additional burdens on already overcrowded schools by providing additional density and growth in that area. She stated the Board will ask for the input of the School Board about the condition of the schools in the area prior to making zoning decisions; but that is not concurrency as it is currently defined in the State of Florida.

Senator Posey stated there is a little bit of blur here between principal and money; this is not about principle, but is about money, how to fund the schools, where the impact comes from, who can control who pays it, and who can control when development stops and starts; the Legislature has not gotten to that level of discussion; and that is why it ran off track last time.

Chairman Carlson stated from the County's perspective, it denied a rezoning on the basis it would create additional overcrowding in already overcrowded schools; the Board is going to be going up against that issue every time because it has chosen to do that; and it is also choosing its own quality of life determined by what kind of education the children get. She stated the Board is communicating with the School Board; it is in the process of putting together agreements that will make that communication better and benefit the schools; and if the schools can do anything more, she hopes they do it; but it really falls on the Board because it okays the development. She stated the Board is not going to approve development that is going to overcrowd the schools; and that is where it sits right now.

Commissioner Colon stated Representative Allen mentioned something about donation of land; the same thing happened in Brevard County with a developer donating land to build a school; but it costs millions of dollars to build a school, which is money the School Board does not have, so it is irrelevant. She stated when she was an elected official in Palm Bay, there was an apartment complex built with 324 units; Jupiter Elementary School had no idea those children were coming until August; and the Principal found it difficult to deal with. She stated this story is not unique to Palm Bay; it is happening throughout the County; and it cannot keep up. She noted hundreds of units are going up on San Filippe; and she wonders if Columbia Elementary is ready for those numbers that will be coming in because it already has portables. She stated this is not just the School Board's problem; everyone has to figure out what needs to be done to stop the problem; she is not trying to stop growth; but the Board should be smart in planning how it is going to do things. She stated the citizens are saying the elected officials are allowing these things to happen; she does not want Brevard County to become like Orange or Dade County; Representative Allen was in Palm Beach when this happened; and the Board is just trying to stay one step ahead.

Commissioner Scarborough stated with transportation, there is concurrency with how many cars and how long one has to sit at a light, but it does not take in the issue of traffic hazards; and sometimes that has to be brought in collaterally. He stated with the issue of quality of education, portables are an element as well as teachers, size of the classroom, and other unique things that bring out the children's qualities; that is the School Board definition; and if there was just one County government with no cities, there probably would not be a problem. He stated what Commissioner Higgs is trying to address is entering into interlocal agreements; and commented on Palm Beach and Orange County's presentations to the Board. He stated the Board should not be defining quality of education because it has so many components; it is a very difficult decision; however to the extent that the Board is negatively impacting the school system with its decisions, it should be able to have the same type of concurrency for the schools as it has with other things. He inquired if the County or the municipalities want to work with the School Board, is there a problem with local elected officials being able to take it in little parts when there are problems. He stated Palm Bay may have more problems than Rockledge does; and if that is the case, maybe they should address it first. He commented on transporting students from school to school, providing more flexibility to work with the School Board, using policies wisely, and getting more guidance from the School Board.

Chairman Carlson stated due to the terms of the State Statutes, the School Board has to react to the overcrowding issue by transporting children from one school to another with seat openings; there are an overabundance of school stations available for children; but unfortunately transporting children from Suntree to the beachside means additional time, traffic, and worry; so the quality of education is going to deteriorate. She stated this is very complex; and the Board appreciates the communication on this issue.

Commissioner O'Brien stated he gets approximately three phone calls a month concerning the lottery; a lot of people think the lottery money is not being directed back to education, which they thought they had been promised when the lottery first came for approval; and they have voiced that the money is going everywhere except back to the grammar schools, etc. where they thought they would see dynamic changes via that funding added to the budget that was already in place. He stated he knows that a bit of the lottery money was used for various scholarships to State universities and colleges, which is also important; but the main things people are asking is where is all the lottery money. Representative Randy Ball stated if some of the people who are calling would study the issue, they might quit calling; and this is getting to be an old thing that needs to go away. He stated the lottery was approved before any of the Delegation was elected; with Commissioner Higgs advising it was in 1987 or 1988. Representative Ball stated every lottery dollar that has ever been promised to go to education has gone to education; it is approximately $800 million a year; but as they entered into a recession, general revenue was cut that was going into education and the lottery dollars were allowed to supplant the general revenue dollars. He stated whether that was wrong or not is an issue that can be addressed with those who were in the Legislature at that time; but they will say they did not promise not to cut general revenue dollars for education during a recession, and that they were forced to do so. He stated the way to atone for the sin of the lottery is to start putting extra general revenue dollars back into education; and ever since he has been in the Legislature, general revenue dollars far exceeding enrollment growth have been put into education. He stated people wanted to see a large part of the money going for college scholarships, which is what is seen today in the Bright Futures Program; and a lot of money is being bonded for school construction. He stated every time a lottery goes into a state, there are people promising the money will be used to supplement existing dollars, but it does not; and that is why there are questions about the lottery. He stated it is no longer an issue; hopefully that will satisfy people's questions; and if anyone has a question they can send them to him so he can explain. Commissioner O'Brien stated he did not know the answer, which is why he brought it up today. Representative Ball stated it stung a lot of people; they thought it would be added on top of existing funding like they were promised; and he does not know if the Legislature was wrong or not in cutting; but every dollar has gone into education. Commissioner O'Brien stated he can understand about the scholarships, but a lot of parents want to see less in the way of scholarships and more in the way of bricks and mortar. Representative Ball stated he does not think so; people wanted to see scholarships; and although hundreds of millions of dollars have been put into school construction, only approximately $300 million has been spent because there is a backlog of lottery-funded construction due to siting and permitting issues.

Senator Posey stated the reality is every dime of lottery money would not fund the education system of Florida for a week; but somehow it eases people's guilt to say all the funding problems could be solved if the lottery was passed. He stated the lottery was to supplement education; when he ran for office, the biggest complaint from teachers was that they had to pay for their own ditto paper; when he was elected, the Legislature was giving the lottery money as non-categorical, blank checks to the school districts; but when he pulled the expenditures in the three counties he represented, he noted in Brevard County, which got a little over $12 million in lottery money, $420,000 went for classroom supplies, and that year the teachers did not get raises, but did get an increase in insurance; and they decided to put some money into scholarships so "John Q. Public's" child could be guaranteed that if he made the grade and worked hard in school, he would be guaranteed the opportunity to go to college; and he does not regret that decision.

Chairman Carlson stated it all comes back full circle to planning; there are a lot of issues the Department of Education needs to work with; and one is exactly where the money is going.

Commissioner Higgs stated there is a list of requests that the Board sent to the Delegation; the hour is getting late and the Delegation has another meeting; and expressed appreciation for the Delegations consideration of the requests. She stated they know it is going to be a very tough session for funding; but the Board would appreciate consideration of the requests, and staff is prepared to assist in any way with additional information, expert testimony, etc.

Chairman Carlson stated the Board will not go through the items individually; everyone is aware of them; and of the three new Legislative initiatives, the big one has already been discussed at length. She stated the second one was disclosure of special flood hazards; this is an issue the Board has been grappling with in terms of development in the floodplains; and the Board would like to see full disclosure to property owners, when they are buying property, that their property may flood at some time because the cost of flooding affects everyone in the pocketbook. She noted the third initiative is disclosure of political committees.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired if the third initiative would be favorably received; and stated this goes back to a race that occurred in Brevard County where there was a level of undisclosed advertising of a very negative tone. He stated they were getting calls from people who could not believe that people could secretly attack other humans in an indiscriminate manner; they will probably never know who the people were; and inquired if that is something the Legislature will favorably consider, and is it of concern beyond Brevard County.

Representative Ball stated it is of concern everywhere, but is a complicated issue; and there are ways to do it, and people are looking into it. He stated to him, it is unacceptable; but there are certain constitutional standards that are very difficult to meet when trying to go after someone who does something like that because it has to be proven they were malicious. He stated there are ways to get required disclosure; but Senator Posey may have a differing view. He stated they have discussed this because it is a difficult issue; and there should at least be ways to require disclosure of the principal officers of any organization or group, formed for the purpose of putting out that kind of advertisement, so everyone will know who these people are.

Senator Posey stated it is a very complex issue; the State is subject to the previous decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court; the State Constitution says that any person can say anything that he or she wants to, but must be responsible for the abuse of that right; and the Supreme Court has said, in the Case of New York Times vs. Sullivan, that right is not abused unless what has been said is malicious. He noted the standard of malicious intent is almost impossible and very rarely has been proven; and he wants everyone who is involved to understand what they are dealing with. He stated the courts have also said there is a first amendment right to discuss issues in a public forum; and it is not necessary to disclose who you are or who contributed money to that as long as it is not endorsing a candidate. He stated in his opinion, if there are two candidates in a race, and one is slammed, that is a backhanded endorsement of the other; but the legal counsel of the Committee on Ethics, of which he is Chairman, advises the Supreme Court does not agree with his evaluation. He stated they would like to have passed legislation that would require disclosure of anyone who puts out any information for or against a candidate, but it affects every newspaper; and they do not like going that far. He stated they decided to keep the media out of it, and try and isolate committees, since that seems to be the biggest problem; and explained the way committees could get around that by paying a bum $5 to put his name on the form as the principal and then provide donations from committee to committee. He stated there would be good intentions; the public would be told the problem was solved; but really nothing would be done because there would be a clink in the armor. He stated every attempted solution that has been tried has been stopped by decisions made by the courts; they are open to suggestions; they will take them from anybody; but right now, they have not been able to solve this problem. He stated they have heard editorially that the Legislature should be able to solve this; there have been accusations that they do not want to solve it; but they would love to solve it because they are all subject to being personally trashed by this kind of stuff. He stated so far there has not been a solution that the judiciary would sustain; and they would like input or ideas.

Representative Needelman stated he has worked with Ms. Laymance and came up with some ideas; as Senator Posey said under the guidelines set forth by the courts, what a person says and how much he or she spends is a constitutional given that is allowed; and what they are looking at is removing it from a community format and going separately as a different part of Chapter 106, Florida Statutes. He commented on the timeframe the courts talked about; and stated they are not only looking at not making it part of the community process under Chapter 106, but also addressing the problem of time frame, which may satisfy the courts' concerns. He stated he and Senator Futch are looking at that with staff; there are some ideas floating around; and hopefully they will have a bill to submit in time for this session.

Chairman Carlson inquired if there are any other questions on the 2002 Legislative Requests.

Representative Allen inquired if any of the amendments being proposed on school concurrency address the time frame the County Attorney was able to isolate for him on when the head count begins, and is that a concurrency amendment. Commissioner Higgs stated the concurrency amendment she was talking about is much simpler than that; it does not deal with head counts; but she is not sure what amendments concerning concurrency are being proposed this session. She stated she knows some were taken off the table last year, so she does not know what is out there in terms of concurrency; but the Board was asking that jurisdictions be allowed individually to set those standards as opposed to the County and all municipalities having to come up with one plan. County Manager Tom Jenkins suggested conferring with the School Board to get some specific language on the counts. Representative Allen stated his biggest concern is that no matter how many regulations or interlocal agreements there are, the School Board still cannot count until the heads show up at the door; and the amendment may be complicating the system more than it is fixing it. He stated the simplest thing is to let the School Board, which is elected to do the job, get information from the Planning Departments; and the School Board can start counting while the building is being done. Commissioner Higgs stated concurrency really deals with the issue as it happens; it is not a planning issue; and the discussions with the School Board have been about zoning and planning issues apart from concurrency, which really deals with it at the moment there is concurrent demand. She stated that is the distinction between the zoning, planning, and Comprehensive Planning issues and concurrency; concurrency is really too late in the process; but it would give a mechanism that would be useful.

Chairman Carlson stated it may also help to talk to Assistant County Manager Peggy Busacca or Planning and Zoning Director Mel Scott in terms of the communication that occurs with the School Board to understand what is going on now, what has happened in the past, and where there are flaws that the County cannot get a handle on.

Senator Posey stated he would not mind getting a County report on Barnes Boulevard.

Commissioner O'Brien stated Merritt Island is a good example of the largest populated unincorporated city in the Southeast United States; SR 520 goes through one site, SR 3 goes through the other, and SR 528 also crosses it; and because those are State roads, the applicable laws about billboards are State controlled. He stated it is hard to envision seeing billboards in the middle of town, adjacent to urban as well as residential areas; but if one were to drive down SR 3 from SR 528, he or she could count five full-size billboards before getting to Divine Mercy Church; the billboards are not necessarily required to comply with the County Sign Ordinance as to size, lighting, reflection, location, etc.; and if there was more local control, it would be possible to prevent this mess from continuing. He stated coming down SR 528, as you cross the St. Johns River, there are three billboards; and near the Port, there are five more billboards on the north side and three on the south side. He stated it is not that Merritt Island is totally anti-billboard; but the County has no control over how many billboards go up there, how big they are, how bright they are lit, how gaudy they are, or anything else; and it affects the community. He stated they understand that billboards are used for advertising; but to be slapped in the face with them all over the place is inappropriate. He stated if the legislation goes through, he hopes this will be discussed and there will be focus on population; there are billboards in downtown Merritt Island, especially in the Redevelopment Area; and they cannot get rid of them, move them, cut them down, or buy them because the State says on a State road, they are allowed. He stated they would like to have some way to remove the billboards that have become eye blight; he is only talking about his District but other Commissioners agree; and the State should not reduce control, but should give more ability to reduce the billboards. He stated he is aware that Mr. Spearman represents one of the billboard companies; with Mr. Spearman responding no, he is just a realist. Chairman Carlson stated all the Commissioners support Commissioner O'Brien on that.

Public Works Director Henry Minneboo stated they are at the completion of an extensive drainage report throughout the area from Fiske Boulevard to U.S. 1; and they know the costs that are anticipated if they go to a four-lane configuration. He stated from Murrell Road to Fiske Boulevard, the cost would be $8.5 million; and if the Board decides to go all the way to U.S. 1, that will cost $14.5 million, which will take in the intersection of U.S. 1 and Barnes Boulevard. He stated they should have a final report very shortly, which they will share with everyone.

Chairman Carlson requested Senator Posey be copied on all of that.

Commissioner Colon stated just as Senator Posey used Rockledge as an example because he knows that community, she used Palm Bay as an example; and the City is not for or against any of the things the County is doing. She stated because of what happened after September 11, a lot of things have come up concerning the Sheriff's Department; the Board has allocated almost a quarter of a million dollars it was not counting on adding to that Department; and this may just
be the beginning. She stated it is a huge burden; what the Legislature is going through now is difficult; but any unfunded mandates are going to be quite difficult for the Board because it had to come up with the additional money for the Sheriff.

Commissioner O'Brien stated in the presentation is permanent State funding support for the Veterans Transitional Facility; 20% of the homeless in the County are veterans, 580 at last count; and the Transitional Facility does not handle veterans who are alcoholics or drug users. He stated the facility takes in the homeless, especially those with families, and tries to get them jobs; and they have been rather successful, but their funding is lacking. He stated the request is for $75,000; and some of the men and women are those who fought for the country in Vietnam and the Gulf War; and soon there will be veterans back from Afghanistan. He stated some will face severe problems with unemployment, family, etc; and they may be homeless. He stated the Veterans' Facility in Melbourne is one of the best in the State; it needs the funding to operate; and at the recent workshop on the homeless, he was surprised by the number of veterans.

Transportation Planning Director Bob Kamm stated several years ago, when the Viera Development of Regional Impact was proposed, there was to be an interchange with Viera Boulevard; and The Viera Company started working with FDOT and the federal government to get permission for the interchange. He stated the interchange would redirect a lot of traffic away from Barnes Boulevard to the point where long-range plans were showing no need to four-lane Barnes Boulevard; and the situation is that the interchange may or may not be approved by the federal government, but traffic is building up on Barnes Boulevard. He stated the County and the City of Rockledge are dealing with Barnes Boulevard; federal agencies are making decisions without a lot of local input; and that affects the County's planning. He stated it makes it particularly complicated to reach a good decision on how to commit County resources and for the City to do its land planning when there is a federal agency that is changing the rules as they go. He stated the County is scrambling to find a way to fund the improvements.

Senator Posey inquired who condemns the property on both sides of it; with Mr. Kamm responding there is a technical issue on how to count the cars to determine if level of service standards have been met; and County staff and Rockledge staff are not in agreement on some of the technical aspects. Mr. Kamm stated the larger question is who has the ability to say there is a concurrency violation, the City or the County. Senator Posey inquired if this is the same level of confusion they want to go to with the schools; with Mr. Kamm responding perhaps it will be a question of the County or the School Board saying there is an overcrowding situation; and it is a similar situation with Barnes Boulevard. Senator Posey inquired if the County feels there is a concurrency problem; with Mr. Kamm responding the County does not feel that there is a concurrency problem at this point and the City does.

Chairman Carlson inquired if Lobbyist Guy Spearman has any comments; with Mr. Spearman responding no.

PRESENTATION, RE: BREVARD COMMISSION ON AGING

Melissa Otto, Chairman of Commission on Aging, thanked Commissioner Scarborough for inviting her to make a presentation today; and stated everyone should have a copy of the Legislative Issues for the Elder-Ready Communities Report. She stated the Brevard Commission on Aging recently facilitated a series of strategic planning sessions at the request of the Board of County Commissioners to identify priority needs for the County's aging population; Florida ranks second in the nation in the number of citizens over the age of 65, and is first in the proportion of percentage of citizens over 65; and as aging issues become the focus, the State is in the position of having people looking to see what it is doing as it makes its plans for the future. She stated the number of elderly in Florida needing publicly supported long-term care services because of physical and cognitive impairments is going to grow by 42% by the year 2010; the population is going to grow large in the County; and if the current patter of nursing home dependent long-term care spending is maintained through 2010, public spending on long-term care is projected to increase by $3 billion. She stated the data was gathered from more than 250 senior citizens, health and human service professionals, and local community leaders; from that 35 recommendations were developed; and from those came the specific legislative issues. She stated the first issue is community based services; the first two recommendations that came from this involved expanding in-home community based services through increased funding to the Home Care for the Elderly, Community Care for the Elderly, and the Alzheimer's Disease Initiatives programs as well as the County's Medicaid waiver, In-Home, and Community Residential Programs. She stated studies have consistently shown that home and community-based programs, if properly funded and administered, are cost effective alternatives to nursing homes; and many patients in the in-home and residential care programs are as physically and cognitively impaired as the average nursing home patient. She stated the Home Care for the Elderly and Community Care for the Elderly have both been targeted for substantial cuts while respite and adult day care funds for the Alzheimer's disease initiative programs have been transferred to Medicaid waiver; but those programs in District 7 alone, which is Brevard, Osceola, Seminole, and Orange Counties, has a waiting list of more than 500 people just to get the services; and so cutting those funds will result in higher numbers on the end. She advised the Medicaid waiver dollars transferred from ADI programs cannot be accessed unless the individuals currently are receiving CCE, which adds to the problem. She stated the Commission on Aging is asking the Legislature to look very closely before any cut in funding is made to these programs. She stated the next area is long-term care insurance; and one of the recommendations that came from the workshops was for the Legislators to work with their counterparts in Washington to promote federal tax incentives for individuals who purchase long-term care insurance. She stated it has become obvious that the government cannot continue to fund at the level it is with increasing numbers of people needing long-term care services; and offering incentives for long-term care insurance for people to start taking this into their own hands would be a big benefit. She stated another issue is availability and affordability of long-term care services; the current occupancy rate for nursing home beds is over 88%; there is a moratorium on the creation of new beds until 2006; this moratorium was put in place in anticipation of expanding community-based services; and if the moratorium stands and home and community-based services are cut, a critical gap in services is going to exist. She stated while recent events have shifted the attention to security issues, the need to improve the quality of care in nursing homes remains critical in the State of Florida; the nursing homes provide a vital service; and it is important that efforts be made to help them remain economically stable while protecting those who are most vulnerable. She stated in Brevard County alone there are three nursing homes in Chapter 11 bankruptcy; and this is of concern, because if they go under, the question is where to put those who will continue to need care. She stated the last issue is public guardians; they are requesting support for public guardians through the Office of the Statewide Public Guardian, which was created, but never funded; her role with the State's Attorney's office puts her in a position to see the abuse, neglect, and exploitation of seniors; and financial exploitation is growing every day. She stated this issue came out of the small sub-group she worked on, so she had a lot of input; there are older adults with limited financial resources who are no longer capable of making either health or financial decisions for themselves, but guardian system already cannot keep up with the current demand; those who cannot afford it are not getting the services; and recommended the Legislature support funding of the Public Statewide Guardian. She stated the number of assisted living beds available to low-income elderly will be increased if their recommendations are taken; the availability of cost effective in-home and community-based services to frail elders to prevent or delay nursing home placements will increase; and the buzzwords are "aging in place and living independently." She stated the longer someone can be kept living independently and out of nursing homes, the better their quality of life and health will be; and there will not be huge shortfalls on where to place people. She stated the number of individuals taking responsibility for their own long-term care needs will increase; Florida's nursing home facilities will be able to provide quality care and remain financially viable; and low-income older adults with insufficient mental or physical capacity to care for themselves will be protected. She stated if the State does not continue its work to contain the cost of long-term care services, the current budget crisis is going to worsen; and the recommendations presented today offer a long-term fix as opposed to a short-term one. She stated it is difficult to weigh the value of one program against another when making budget decisions; and she does not envy the task before the Legislature; but the needs illustrated today are not going to go away. She stated the numbers are going to increase dramatically in Brevard County; that is why the Commission on Aging was developed; and if the issues are not addressed now, the County will ultimately pay in the long run.

Chairman Carlson thanked the Delegation for a very productive meeting.

Upon motion and vote, the meeting was adjourned at 3:03 p.m.

 

ATTEST:

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SUSAN CARLSON, CHAIRMAN
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA

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SCOTT ELLIS, CLERK

(S E A L)