The Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, met in workshop session on June 5, 1995, at 10:10 a.m. in the Government Center Multipurpose Room, Building C, 2725 St. Johns Street, Melbourne, Florida. Present were: Chairman Nancy Higgs, Commissioners Truman Scarborough, Randy O'Brien, Mark Cook, and Scott Ellis, County Manager Tom Jenkins, and County Attorney Scott Knox.

DISCUSSION, RE: ENFORCEMENT OF NUDITY ORDINANCE

Commissioner Scarborough stated Commissioner O'Brien brought up how to pay for enforcement of the Nudity Ordinance; there used to be a toll going to the beach; but the National Park Service took it away; and if the Sheriff wants the federal government to compensate for the enforcement, then the toll could be reinstated, and that revenue could be the mechanism for funding the Sheriff's operation. Commissioner O'Brien stated that is what he suggested. Commissioner Scarborough stated since Chairman Higgs will be representing the Board this afternoon, perhaps things of that nature could be discussed with the Sheriff and the National Park Service.

Chairman Higgs inquired when did they have the toll; with Commissioner Scarborough responding he does not know, but the National Park Service will be glad to provide that information. Commissioner O'Brien stated it was there in the 1970's. Commissioner Scarborough stated there was an entrance fee to use the beach. Chairman Higgs inquired where was it. Commissioner Scarborough stated the road has been restructured since then to move it away from Pad 39B; and the fee was collected at a point almost past S.R. 3.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired if the representatives of the National Park Service will be at the meeting. Chairman Higgs responded she does not know who will be there; but the Sheriff asked her to come, and she is going. Commissioner O'Brien stated if the toll booth does not work, he wonders if the Park Service would be willing to operate under a $2 service charge or surcharge for parking per car. Commissioner Scarborough noted people do stop at a gate to pick up information; and it would be easy to drop $2 at the gate.

County Manager Tom Jenkins stated the key, if the Board wants to do something like that, the Park Service needs to do it instead of the County. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Park Service is already there. Commissioner O'Brien stated the Park Service said it wanted to cooperate and it should; and at $2 per car and 1,000 cars per day, it could collect $14,000 a week.

Commissioner Cook stated he contacted the Sheriff's Office, and what was in the newspaper was the entire budget for the beach patrol, which they had even before adoption of the Nudity Ordinance; so, he is not sure that figure has any relationship to the cost of enforcement.

Chairman Higgs stated Commissioner Cook was contacted, and will be going to the 1:30 p.m. meeting also. Commissioner Cook stated the County Attorney will also be attending. Chairman Higgs inquired if there are any other ideas of enforcement.

Commissioner Ellis recommended the toll booth location be such that it would only affect someone going to the beach, and not going to work. Commissioner Scarborough stated that can be structured easily because the booth is way beyond where anybody going to KSC would go.

Commissioner O'Brien stated he hopes the County does not go crazy with this thing; if the Sheriff wants to spend a minimal amount of money, that is his intent; and they should use common sense. Commissioner Ellis stated if the Sheriff gets a complaint, he has to go. Commissioner O'Brien stated the Sheriff can prioritize his needs. Chairman Higgs stated it would have to be the Sheriff's professional judgment to prioritize calls; and they would only respond to complaints. Commissioner Cook stated the position of the City of West Melbourne is that they would not go out looking for people. Commissioner Ellis stated if someone is out looking for people, they can call them in on a cellular phone. Commissioner Cook inquired if Commissioner Ellis expects that to happen; with Commissioner Ellis responding affirmatively. Commissioner O'Brien stated the Sheriff sent a preliminary patrol down the beach on Friday; they only handed out two warnings; and everybody seemed to be complying. He noted he expects 98% of the people would comply.

Chairman Higgs stated she will report tomorrow.

DISCUSSION, RE: JAIL ISSUE

Commissioner O'Brien stated it appears he and Commissioner Ellis have been working on parallel jail issues without knowing it; and rather than proceeding piecemeal, the Board should have a meeting with a representative of the Juvenile Division, Public Defender, State Attorney, Sheriff, the Board, staff and anyone else involved in that operation. He stated the question is where is the problem created; and inquired is it created by the overcrowded jail or by the person who shoplifts and is thrown into the jail for 90 days before he can be tried.

Chairman Higgs inquired if Commissioner O'Brien got a copy of her reply to his note. She stated the Public Safety Coordinating Council does that; she and Commissioner Ellis met with them last week regarding his recommendations; and they were open to his suggestions. She stated that group has to approve the jail plan. Commissioner O'Brien inquired does the County need more jail space, or is the system causing the problem, and what is driving the problem.

Commissioner Cook stated if the Board could sit down with others and get the full picture, that would help the Board make informed decisions. Chairman Higgs stated the Board has the vehicle through the Public Safety Coordinating Council. Commissioner Cook noted all five Commissioners do not sit in on those meetings. Chairman Higgs noted that does not mean all five Commissioners cannot sit in on those meetings. Commissioner Ellis suggested a joint meeting. Commissioner Cook stated that may be the option. Chairman Higgs stated the vehicle is there to do exactly what Commissioner Cook is talking about. Commissioner O'Brien stated he would like to have a round table discussion to get this ironed out. Commissioner Cook stated if he had known Commissioner Ellis was going to be at the last meeting, he would have attended to hear what he had to say. Commissioner Cook inquired if this would be the vehicle to have a joint meeting; with Chairman Higgs responding if that is what Commissioner Cook wants, that would be the group to have it with; and named those who attended the meeting. Commissioner O'Brien noted Mr. Russo and Mr. Wolfinger had opposite opinions.

Commissioner Ellis stated the other factor the Board needs to find out is whether the State is going to make headway in the state system, because if individuals are held longer in the state prison system, the County will see them less often here. Chairman Higgs stated the group endorsed the minimum security enhanced facility; they are charged by law to give input on those decisions; but if the Board wants to meet jointly with them, she does not see any reason why that cannot occur. Commissioner O'Brien stated the half-mill sales tax may be unnecessary; but he may only be hearing one side; and the Sheriff may say that he needs more jail space. He stated it may be possible to get another judge; Dade County has gotten five more judges in the last three years; and Brevard County has not gotten any since 1979. Commissioner Ellis advised the County did get one judge. Commissioner O'Brien stated the problem is to unclog the jail by getting them out of the jail to trial, and into the system; and then the County can reduce its jail population substantially. Chairman Higgs inquired if Commissioner O'Brien would like to see the Board meet jointly with the Public Safety Coordinating Council in July; with Commissioner O'Brien responding he would. Commissioner Cook agreed it could not hurt. Commissioner O'Brien suggested a format for the meeting. Commissioner Ellis stated they could talk about the maximum security jail. Commissioner O'Brien stated he wants to see if one is needed. Commissioner Ellis advised that is the point of the meeting; he does not think it is necessary to build a maximum security addition; and he wants to hear what everyone else thinks. Commissioner O'Brien stated when the item comes up at the June 6, 1995 meeting, he may make a motion to table until after the joint meeting. Commissioner Ellis stated the judges were all in support of adding a minimum security addition and upgrading the cafeteria.

DISCUSSION, RE: PARKS AND RECREATION NEEDS

Parks and Recreation Director Charles Nelson stated there are four key areas that impact what the Parks and Recreation Department does and how it does it; and direction from the Board will help in terms of where it goes in the future. He noted maps have been provided showing the different areas and park locations, and another map has been provided showing "hot spots." He stated the Department has been surviving in terms of trying to catch up from the impact of the Beach and Riverfront Program and bringing park maintenance to an acceptable level. He stated the Department's efforts in terms of the Parks and Open Space Plan, which is a required element of the Comprehensive Plan, have been minimal; staff is in the process of reviewing and revising the Plan; and it can be simplified significantly to make it a more valuable tool for long-range planning. He stated the recreation hot spots that are shown on the map are all areas on which the County is working with organizations or has had contact with organizations about recreational needs.

Chairman Higgs noted Micco is not shown. Mr. Nelson responded that project is underway, and is probably further along than some of the others. He stated the map has picked up some of the more obvious areas such as Titusville soccer, the Palm Bay Regional Park, and the relationship with the Cities of Rockledge and Cocoa, which are looking to acquire land. Mr. Nelson stated they are all active recreation; they are user facilities that would have athletics and those types of uses; and one of the shortcomings of the Comprehensive Plan is that it did a good job in terms of preservation of property and planning for the long-range, but it has not done a good job in terms of land for active recreational needs. He stated the County is now faced with user groups requesting assistance from the County; and by revising the Plan and looking at stronger and better standards for recreation services, staff will be able to give the Board a better picture of what the needs are instead of having to deal with it on a crisis basis. He stated the Plan will get thinner; and it will be more relevant to where the County is in 1995 versus where it was in the 1980's. He inquired if there are any questions or modifications of that direction.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired if Mr. Nelson is saying find more properties for youth sports. Mr. Nelson advised the focus needs to change in that direction, not necessarily in terms of properties, but in terms of meeting recreational needs. He stated that may be able to be solved by the use of school properties, cooperative efforts with cities, and those kinds of things; but there is not a good road map as to where it needs to go. He stated the County is short in those kinds of facilities; and that is reflected in the contacts that are made with the Commissioners. Commissioner O'Brien inquired if Mr. Nelson is referring to active recreational park lands; with Mr. Nelson responding yes.

Commissioner Cook stated the report says the County is in excess of the two acres per thousand residents which the Comprehensive Plan calls for. Mr. Nelson advised that is the case; but in Central Brevard, counting all of F. Burton Smith Park, it is okay for a long time; but that does not address the need.

Chairman Higgs inquired if staff is including all recreation lands in the three acres per 1,000 people. Mr. Nelson stated the dilemma is staff could say it has met the recreational requirements, and in most cases exceeded the requirements.

Commissioner Ellis expressed concern with getting overly involved with active recreation; and inquired if there is a way to have a County park with the County's role being to provide capital outlay and then stepping away. He stated at the sewer plant in Indian Harbour Beach, he does not want the County to get involved with the fields. Commissioner Cook stated that is what the County is looking at. Mr. Nelson stated that is being discussed; and that issue will come up later in the discussion about the relationship of the County with the cities. He stated the question is one of Board policy; throughout the County, there are varying levels of participation in terms of maintenance; and if the Board is looking to change that direction, then staff will need to know that because the budget is geared toward that.

Commissioner Scarborough stated while the Beach and Riverfront Program has been wonderful, it has driven the parks to the extent that youth sports and other active parks have suffered because the County has been drained by the Beach and Riverfront activities. He stated while there may be three acres per 1,000 people, the County has fallen behind on what has been done in certain segments. He stated it may be that the County is exceeding so well in some areas, that it is falling behind in the area of active recreation.

Mr. Nelson stated a modification will focus on the land and the facilities aspect to give a better picture of where the County is and drive that issue.

Commissioner Scarborough stated perhaps three acres per 1,000 people is not a sufficient basis for analysis; and it may be necessary to have other parameters, such as so many soccer fields per thousand.

Commissioner Ellis stated then it gets into what is the City providing also; and the north area is different from the south area because the County runs everything.

Commissioner Scarborough stated in North Brevard, the MSTU includes the City; the County used to get money from the City, but now it includes the City; and there is no Titusville Department of Recreation.

Commissioner Ellis stated Melbourne and Palm Bay both run very active Parks Departments. He stated the Cities also serve people in the unincorporated area; that is the complaint of Satellite Beach right now; and inquired if the County could say its share is contribution to the capital outlay to put the facility up, but operation would be turned over to the cities. He stated he is thinking of Riverview Park which is wholly within the City of Melbourne; and the County could tell the City it is willing to build the park, but then the City will maintain it. Commissioner Scarborough stated Commissioner Ellis has his best wishes in dealing with the City.

Chairman Higgs stated that park is so far into the planning, it is unlikely the County could get that kind of deal; but in Castaway Point, the County is going to do that because the County acquired the land, but Palm Bay will do the development and the maintenance.

Commissioner Ellis stated he does not think it is too late for Riverview Park and for Lake Washington Fish Camp. He stated once they are put up, there is the possibility of contracting out the operation. Commissioner Cook inquired contracting out to who; with Commissioner Ellis responding whoever wants to build a concession stand, bait shop, and everything else associated with a fish camp. Commissioner Cook stated it would privatize the operation. Commissioner Ellis stated maintenance eats up a lot of the budget.

Chairman Higgs inquired why the City of Melbourne would take Riverview Park for maintenance. Commissioner Ellis stated if the City did not take it, the County would not build Riverview Park. He stated Beach and Riverfront funds are great for capital outlay; but the General Fund is trying to maintain the parks at the expense of all the other parks in the County.

Commissioner Cook stated he does not want to tie the County's hands with the Comprehensive Plan, but that is a goal. Commissioner Scarborough stated three acres per thousand people does not cut it when there are a lot of children who are not able to play soccer.

Commissioner Cook stated the County is deficient in a lot of water-related activities, access to the water, and boating activities; and the Board needs to look at that.

Commissioner O'Brien stated he thought the Beach and Riverfront Program was to acquire access to the beaches for the public; but the end result is the County has been buying whole parcels of land and creating parks, rather than just providing access to the river or beach. He stated that was not the public intent.

Chairman Higgs stated it was not just for access, but access and preservation according to the Referendum language. Commissioner Ellis stated there has to be some improvements for the access. Chairman Higgs stated the Referendum provided for both. Commissioner O'Brien stated the park next to Lori Wilson Park is so overgrown, a person would have to be Jungle Jim to go through it; and the sign cannot be read from the highway. Commissioner Ellis stated it is being left until there is a need; there is a large piece of property by Paradise Park; but until it reaches a point where Paradise Park is overflowing and there is need, which may be in 50 years, there is no point in paving any more. Commissioner Ellis stated if it was not purchased through Beach and Riverfront, when the need came, it might not be possible to provide access.

Mr. Nelson stated Lori Wilson and Paradise Parks were both good acquisitions because they expanded existing parks; and if it is ever necessary to expand parking, there is an economy of scale in maintaining the existing park rather than driving down the beach. He cautioned that turning maintenance over to Little Leagues has worked in some cases, but not in the vast majority; stated they are there for three for four months out the year; they start in February when the grass is not growing; they finish in June when the grass starts growing; and they do not do the maintenance throughout the rest of the year. He stated the dilemma is they are not a maintenance driven organization; the same parents go on to soccer in the fall and other activities; and he spends a lot of time and effort restoring those facilities. He stated what the County may do best, whether through contract or through its own services, is maintenance; the organizations are providing the recreation program; if the organizations were not providing the programs, the need would still be there, and the County would have to figure a way to do it; but there is a question about how well the organizations can do the maintenance.

Commissioner Ellis inquired what about the cities. Mr. Nelson responded that is a different situation; and that is a legitimate discussion about shared responsibility. Commissioner Cook stated Satellite Beach is a prime example that is willing to take over the entire operation if the County provides the property. Commissioner O'Brien stated Port Canaveral is another one that wants to take over all the parks; and he and Mr. McLouth are in the process of discussing another park the Port may build at its expense. Commissioner Ellis stated the long-term plan with Palm Bay Regional Park has soccer fields; and it may be possible to work something out with Palm Bay. Mr. Nelson stated the inconsistency is due to this evolving over time and conditions change; but it makes it difficult because in Palm Bay, the County is actively involved in building an active recreation facility within City limits; that is not typical except in those cases where there are MSTU's or Special Districts; and it raises the question under what circumstances should the County being doing that. Mr. Nelson stated as the dollars get tighter, all the cities will be looking to the County for assistance; and the argument will be city residents are also County residents. He stated it may be possible to get ahead of the discussion, and advise, under certain conditions, the County may do those things.

Commissioner Ellis suggested the County's role be to provide land and capital, at least for the incorporated area; and stated it would not be applicable in Merritt Island or in the Special Taxing Districts. He stated beachside communities in South Brevard and in Melbourne and Palm Bay, as the County provides the land, it should expect the cities to run the parks. He stated even Palm Bay Regional Park, it may be possible to work out a deal for the City to provide maintenance for the park. Mr. Nelson stated one of the alternatives may be to do something similar to what is done in Titusville, Cocoa and Rockledge; if the cities want the County to participate, there will need to be an MSTU or Special Taxing District to assist with that.

Commissioner Scarborough stated people are paying County taxes as well as city taxes; and if there is no MSTU and he was on the city council, he would question why the County is not paying if the citizen inside the city is paying just like those outside the city. He stated if there is an MSTU the only equitable way to run it is to have it inside and outside the city so all citizens are paying the same level. He stated the County may run into some problems with the cities if it just requests the cities pick up some cost because the cities will have a legitimate argument that they have already paid. Chairman Higgs agreed the idea that the County can go back to some of the cities and get money is not going to work. Commissioner Ellis stated the General Fund money needs to be divided into five Commission Districts; that will be all that each District will get out of the General Fund share; the rest will have to come from MSTU's or assessments to the cities; and that would truly be the fair way. Chairman Higgs inquired how would Commissioner Ellis divide it; with Commissioner Ellis responding he knows what the tax base is in each of the five Commission Districts; and he can allocate the General Fund money by District. Chairman Higgs stated it is based on the taxable income. Commissioner Ellis stated that is how much each of the five Districts would then get from the General Fund; and the difference would have to be made up through the MSTU or whatever else is out there. He stated Commissioner Schmitt-Kirwan used to point out that Rockledge and Cocoa pay into a special MSTU; but he lives in Melbourne and pays for the City of Melbourne to keep up Crane Field so children in Suntree can play there; and if the Board wants to get to something that is truly equitable, it should be broken into five Districts and the General Fund money divided that way. Assistant County Manager for Community Services Joan Madden stated she does not know what the effect of that would be on the large unincorporated area of Merritt Island. Commissioner Ellis stated if those who live in Melbourne or Palm Bay pay twice. Mr. Jenkins noted Merritt Island has high assessed property, and it may come out okay; but no one will know until they look at the numbers.

Mr. Nelson stated the issues are inter-related; the problem is the Beach and Riverfront Program was voter approved Countywide; beach only occurs along the coast; and getting into taxable values and who maintains what fogs the issue. He stated the mainland in the Titusville area has no beaches as part of its maintenance responsibility because Playalinda Beach is part of the Canaveral National Seashore. Commissioner Ellis inquired about Manatee Hammock and other parks. Mr. Jenkins stated some facilities are used by residents Countywide; but there may be a bunch of them in one or two districts because of the availability of the property; and therefore a certain region of the County might be asked to fund an unfair share for a facility that is used by everybody. He inquired why should one district bear the brunt of it; and suggested dividing facilities into two categories, one which is Countywide in nature, which would be paid out of the Parks and Recreation budget. Commissioner Ellis stated every district has a cut on the beach. Mr. Jenkins stated they all got equal money under the Beach and Riverfront Program. Chairman Higgs stated in terms of maintenance costs for the Districts 3 and 5 beachfront parks, those service the entire south area. Commissioner Ellis noted Districts 3 and 5 are the south area; it is not hard to divide the money instead of having the sectors set up; and explained how it could be done. Mr. Nelson stated that does not necessarily relate to sound maintenance practices because Commission boundaries are based on population and move around; a crew may have to drive past one park to another park that happens to be in a different district; so it becomes difficult to maintain parks based on those kinds of boundaries. Commissioner Cook stated the only way it would work would be to identify regional parks as a separate category. Commissioner Ellis stated the argument will be everyone will say their parks are regional parks. Mr. Jenkins stated Commissioner Ellis is saying each District would get a certain number of dollars, then they would have to prioritize within the district; and it will almost force negotiation with the cities to do certain things. Commissioner Ellis stated just because District 5 has maintenance in District 5 parks does not mean they are District 5 maintenance crews; it is not like it was done in the 1960's; and they could still just their share allocated. He stated the way it is set up now some people say they pay the MSTU and should not pay twice; but the cities pay twice.

Commissioner Cook stated the people in Rockledge pay not only the City taxes, the County taxes, but also the Special District taxes. Commissioner Ellis inquired if Rockledge runs a leisure department comparable to what Melbourne and Palm Bay have, or does it pass its recreation department off to the County to run and keep the City millage down. Commissioner Cook stated the Special District is supplementing the fund. Commissioner Ellis stated if Melbourne had a special MSTU and closed down its leisure services, it could drop its City millage. Mr. Jenkins stated in a perfect world the County would be operating large regional parks out of the General Fund; the cities would be running neighborhood parks or contracting with the County to run them for the cities; and the unincorporated area would be paying through an MSTU for the neighborhood parks in the unincorporated area. He stated that would be the perfect system; that is what Broward County has; but Brevard County's system has evolved over the years and is a hodgepodge. He stated he has been wrestling with this issue since he has been here. Commissioner Ellis suggested Mr. Jenkins cut the Gordian knot, and instead of trying to maneuver the system around, start over. Mr. Jenkins inquired if the public perceives this as a problem; with Chairman Higgs responding yes, it is perceived as a problem.

Chairman Higgs stated she got some figures from the Property Appraiser on the difference in property valuations between North, Central and South Brevard; the amount of income and property valuation is significantly different in the three sectors; and the resulting revenues being generated is significantly different. She stated the North Sector, unincorporated and incorporated property valuations together comes to approximately $3.1 billion worth of property; she did not know how to do Central Brevard; and there is $9.2 billion worth of property valuation in South Brevard. She stated dividing into five districts makes more sense; and the plan the County has used, where South Brevard comes out with $500,000 less, does not seem equitable. Mr. Nelson stated one of the biggest employers in the County is the Space Center which pays no taxes; and the population in the Titusville area would not be there if that industry was not there to support it. He stated in South Brevard, there is value from Harris as well as other residential property values; in Titusville, there is no equivalent because the Space Center is not taxed; therefore, Titusville only gets the property values of residential and light commercial. He stated North Brevard is going to lose out on property value and will require higher personal property taxes. Commissioner Ellis stated in South Brevard, the valuation of waterfront homes has gone up; and further south are more waterfront homes.

Commissioner Scarborough stated one place has incorporated and unincorporated; another has just unincorporated; and this is skewed. He stated District 1 is low even with the incorporated area; so how this is structured with the cities is critical in analyzing the numbers. Chairman Higgs stated she has problems feeling how they have been funded is giving a fair shake to the people south of Pineda Causeway, who have extremely high valuations of property. Mr. Jenkins advised Mr. Nelson stated it is skewed. Chairman Higgs stated it may shift it around, but it is necessary to look at the figures to combat what is being talked about. Commissioner Scarborough stated there was another comment that said throughout the system, there is similar maintenance; but in District 1 there is an MSTU that is bringing in over $900,000 which is an additional tax on the people in District 1; and inquired why the people in District 1 should pay substantially more. He stated the people in District 1 will question whether it is a poorly maintained system in District 1, and why can so much more be done with less elsewhere.

Commissioner Cook stated in the District 4 Special Taxing District, the people are paying approximately $900,000 more, but the level of service is the same; and the Special Taxing District actually services part of District 1. Commissioner Scarborough stated District 4 is getting $800,000; but the millage rate in District 4 is higher than that of District 1. Chairman Higgs stated the General Fund transfer is the same. Commissioner Scarborough stated the problem is even with the General Revenue, he wonders why Districts 1 and 4 are giving funds from additional ad valorem taxes from separate MSTU's but not achieving something better. Commissioner Ellis stated there are more County parks in those areas; and many parks in South Brevard are run by the cities.

Commissioner O'Brien commented on the Merritt Island Little League fields. Mr. Nelson advised the County does not maintain all Little League fields on Merritt Island. Commissioner Ellis inquired who maintains them; with Mr. Nelson responding the Leagues attempt to. Commissioner O'Brien stated one field in Merritt Island was so bad that the League had to buy new sod; and advised of community efforts to maintain the fields and the problems involved. He noted he spoke to Mr. McLouth of the Canaveral Port Authority about the possibility of having two soccer fields which could also be used for rugby at the entrance to the Port. Commissioner Ellis stated the simplest solution is to break out five districts, and set the millage to generate what is generated now; that will be the General Fund contribution to the parks, with everything else to come from MSTU's, cities, etc.; and that will be true equalization. Discussion ensued on the proposal. Commissioner O'Brien explained how the proposal may hurt District 2 if property values plummet as a result of layoffs at the Space Center. Commissioner Ellis advised that will create a ripple effect throughout the County. Commissioner Ellis explained how the new system would work. Discussion resumed on the question of equity for all areas of the County. Chairman Higgs stated she does not see how equalization based on property valuation would be unfair as it will hit everyone at some point in time.

Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board may want to get into a Countywide MSTU, but he would like to have the ability to determine how much is needed in District 1 and set that independently. He stated he does not want to get rid of the overall concept to where problems cannot be met; if other Districts want to redefine their millages, that is fine; however, within each area there should be a flexibility to create a millage rate to see that programs are adequately funded. Chairman Higgs stated the ability to have flexibility is fair.

Mr. Nelson stated the Board is saying that the General Fund should be balanced and distributed based on the amount of money generated by property value by District. Chairman Higgs noted it may not be possible to do that overnight; and the Board needs to study what the effect will be of that action, and what will need to be done to get there over five years. Mr. Nelson stated the difficulty has been trying to provide the same service level in each area regardless of the amount of money being given; the County struggles to try to do that; but it is difficult in a park system to give varying levels based on funding because people do not understand the difference. He stated if that is an acceptable circumstance, he will move in that direction. Chairman Higgs stated that is the most rational basis to do it. Mr. Jenkins stated the Board is also saying staff will have to force new solutions.

Commissioner Scarborough stated under this scenario, District 1 is going to get less; but a portion of District 1 is paying into District 4 Park and Recreation; and if there is going to be equity with reduced funding, he hopes a portion of the District will not be sending money elsewhere. Commissioner Cook stated he does not have a problem with that; but District 4 does service some District 1 residents.

Chairman Higgs stated she would like to see what the impact would be of going to the plan of equity; there will be some problems; and the Board should look at the problems.

Mr. Nelson inquired if the Board would have any objection to running separate plans, with one based on property values and the other based on the regional park concept. Chairman Higgs inquired what are regional parks; with Mr. Nelson responding the Board will be provided with a list, and if it does not agree with the rationale, staff will go back to the drawing board. Commissioner Ellis stated he would not expect this to take effect until the next budget year, because the maintenance costs will have to be broken out per share per District. Chairman Higgs expressed interest in doing it this year. Mr. Jenkins advised it is not feasible to do it this year. Commissioner Ellis stated it will take the rest of the summer to break out the equity issue. Mr. Jenkins stated this is not a small undertaking. Commissioner Ellis stated some cities will be happy, but others will be unhappy. Chairman Higgs stated the Board must address the equity issue first in terms of whether this is a plan that could be developed over several years and then fully implemented, and secondly, whether there is a better way to work with the cities. Mr. Nelson stated that relationship is best for all the taxpayers; it gets past the issue of city versus County in terms of recreational services; it stops duplication; and cooperative efforts are more cost effective. Chairman Higgs stated the Board clearly said it needed to work more cooperatively with cities in terms of more efficient delivery of fire and rescue services; and this is the same kind of issue.

Mr. Nelson stated staff is also working on the issue of school facilities; and he would include those in the partnership. He stated the County has an Agreement with the School Board for use of facilities; and it is oversimplified. He advised Volusia County has developed an Agreement where there is more of a cooperative effort. Chairman Higgs stated she thought the County was moving toward a more cooperative agreement; with Mr. Nelson responding the School Board got sidetracked by the bond issue. Chairman Higgs stated this does not seem to be a major kind of implementation; with Mr. Jenkins responding yes, it is. Mr. Nelson agreed it could be. Mr. Jenkins stated historically the County had the Agreement which did not mean a lot, and a lot did not happen; now what the County is saying to the School Board is if the County wants to use the School Board's property, it will step to the table with some money to help build the facilities and will be responsible for supervising the facilities when it is using them; and that is more involved. Commissioner Ellis stated the School Board has to give direction to the individual Principals to open the fields after school. Commissioner Cook stated rather than building new facilities, the place to start is with agreements on existing facilities. Mr. Nelson stated generally this is a supervision issue; and secondarily, the resistance to the use of facilities involves things as simple as restroom access. He stated Principals do not want to open their facilities; and Volusia County has been successful in building those kinds of support facilities for playgrounds and youth sports areas. Commissioner Ellis stated they need to just open the practice fields, because the School Board has fenced off everything. Mr. Nelson stated this will accomplish that; and the supervision issue is the biggest objection. Chairman Higgs inquired if the Board will have this in July; with Mr. Nelson responding yes, the County has been through it, and the School Board has it. Ms. Madden advised it is currently with the School Board's Legal Department.

Mr. Nelson stated other areas that will help with the budgetary process include privatization of services; currently the County contracts for mowing of 47 of 113 parks; that is being expanded this year; and they are soliciting bids to increase that to 74 parks. He stated typically the ones that are not being mowed are the ones that have minimal need or are athletic in nature, although he is starting to work toward doing some of those, and is developing a contractor's force capable of handling the volume that is being put out to bid. He requested guidance on whether the Board wants to pursue privatization of campgrounds and stables. Commissioner O'Brien inquired if the County privatizes maintenance of 74 parks next year, has it determined it is saving money; with Mr. Nelson responding for the 47 that are currently under contract, money was saved. Mr. Nelson stated he is holding off on hiring of maintenance workers; he knows how much it costs to cut the parks on a park-by-park basis; and he will compare the two to make sure it is a savings. Commissioner O'Brien inquired if it is possible to tell if it is a significant savings or not; with Mr. Nelson responding not at this point because he does not have the new numbers, and he is getting into some large park acres. Commissioner Cook inquired if the Board will be getting some numbers; with Mr. Nelson responding yes. Mr. Nelson stated the danger is if a contractor gets ten sites and goes out of business in the middle of June, he will have a problem because he will not have the equipment or manpower to do that. Commissioner Ellis stated there are also hidden costs in using County employees that will not show up in the comparison, such as the cost of supervision and the paperwork involved. Mr. Nelson stated he will include that because supervision of the contract has to go on.

Chairman Higgs inquired what was the General Fund transfer to Long Point Park; with Mr. Nelson responding approximately $40,000. Chairman Higgs inquired if the park is divided between the general use and the campground portion; with Mr. Nelson responding no. Mr. Jenkins advised he proposed to Mr. Nelson that he contact the State to see if it would be interested in incorporating that into the State Park; and that way it would continue to be a park for the public, but the County would not have to operate it. Commissioner O'Brien stated the County has a park it might want to give to the State; the State has land it is going to try to force upon the County; and if they take one, the County can take one, or everyone can just keep what they have. He stated there is approximately 73 acres at the corner of Sykes Creek and the Barge Canal; the Canaveral Port Authority is transferring title of that property to the State as a land swap; and that is fine, but part of the deal includes renting the 73 acres back to the Port at $1 a year. He stated the Canaveral Port Authority is telling him that land is undevelopable; it is too wet to do anything with it; and meanwhile the people are getting stuck with the cost of maintaining it. Commissioner Ellis suggested letting the property just sit. Commissioner O'Brien stated he does not see why it should be taken in the first place; there will be liability; and the State should keep it.

Chairman Higgs stated at Long Point, the park is a public daily use park and a campground; and she is concerned that as the County goes to privatization, it will leave the public out. She stated at this point the campground supplements the park budget, so it is only costing $40,000 a year to operate. Commissioner Ellis stated the campground makes money. Chairman Higgs stated if considered as a campground and a park, then the campground is making enough money so it only costs $40,000 annually to operate the entire parcel; and it is deceiving to say the campground is costing money. Commissioner Ellis stated if the campground was contracted out, someone would be paying the County. Chairman Higgs stated someone would pay; but the County wants to be sure that it does not lose the overall use of Long Point Park for the public. Commissioner O'Brien stated in negotiation with the Port about Jetty Park, the Port will provide sufficient parking for the public and free access to the jetty and the public beach; and if that does not occur, the County will privatize Jetty Park and do the whole thing. Commissioner Cook stated that is something the County should look at anyway. Commissioner O'Brien stated he is not sure the County should not do that unless the Port is willing to invest something and give the County something for it. Discussion ensued on Jetty Park. Commissioner Cook recommended looking at both options, having the Port take over and privatization. Commissioner O'Brien stated he wants to be sure the public has parking and access. Mr. Jenkins stated the problem with Jetty Park is the County is leasing the land from the Port, and there is an expiration date; the County would have a hard time getting a private vendor to come in and spend a lot of money to upgrade the park; and the Port is committed to improving the park. Commissioner Cook stated two private campground owners have contacted him with regard to Jetty Park; and unless the Board throws that out as an option, it will not know. Commissioner O'Brien stated part of the problem is the other parks the County owns are such a severe drain that the County cannot afford to replace the roof, fix the building, fix the jetty, and upgrade or maintain Jetty Park any longer. He stated the Port has been able to convince the County to build several little parks, and all the capital goes into maintaining those parks; and usually they are boat ramps with a pavilion of some kind. Chairman Higgs stated if the County is seeing if it can work something out on Jetty Park, it may be better to hold off on Long Point rather than moving to privatize all the campgrounds. Mr. Jenkins stated part of the problem with Long Point is it is not in the greatest of shape either; and the County has not had the money to keep it in shape. Chairman Higgs stated it is in better shape than it was. Mr. Jenkins stated the State is the logical extension for that park, and it would still be a public use.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired why does the County not charge enough in rates to cover the expenses; and if it was a business that was losing $40,000 a year, rates would be increased or some other way would be found. Chairman Higgs stated it is not losing $40,000. Commissioner O'Brien stated the County is spending $40,000 over what it is taking in. Chairman Higgs stated any other park the County runs also costs money, but Long Point Park happens to have a dual use; and there is extensive day use of the park. Mr. Jenkins stated Commissioner Ellis raised the question of privatization of Lake Washington Park. Commissioner Cook stated it is something to look at, but it may not be practical. Commissioner Scarborough stated he would like Manatee Hammock to be examined, because as it gets sewer from the City, it will become a viable possibility for sale to make some money while maintaining use as a park, without the County being involved. Commissioner Cook stated Commissioner Ellis had a good idea about the concession activities at Lake Washington; and those certainly could be privatized. Mr. Jenkins stated that would be both to build and operate the concessions; with Chairman Higgs advising of the necessity for a long-term lease if someone is going to build the facilities. Commissioner Cook stated managing the park will have to be a County responsibility. Mr. Nelson stated he cannot imagine a concessionaire is going to make enough to operate the entire park. Mr. Jenkins stated there is a fundamental question whether the County should be in the campground business; very few residents use the campgrounds; and the County is competing with the private sector for tourism. Chairman Higgs stated there are a number of local groups, such as Boy Scouts, that use the camping related facilities at all of the parks; she has camped at Long Point with Scout groups and there have been school groups and other local people; but whether the County wants to run RV parks is another issue. She stated the County does not need to sell off every opportunity it has to make money; and in looking at the overall situation at some place like Long Point, the campground minimizes the cost to the public. Mr. Nelson stated Wickham Park is the same kind of situation; the spinoff benefit is that the rangers, etc. are paid for out of that same budget; and if the activities are separated, it may end up with a higher cost. Chairman Higgs inquired if Manatee Hammock is also public access. Commissioner Scarborough stated there is public access; there is a small facility; but Statham Park which is a little bit further up the road gives river access. He stated the problem with the park was the problem of handling the sewer; but putting sewer in will increase the economic benefit of someone who wanted to maximize it as an RV park. He stated there are some things best left to private enterprise, and perhaps running an RV park in that area is one of them. He advised of the advantages of the location; and stated the County needs to explore the possibility of how much it could be sold for. Commissioner O'Brien inquired if it could be leased instead of sold; and stated, for example, KOA could lease it and give the County a piece of the action for eternity. Commissioner Scarborough stated that may be a better deal because there is an opportunity to continue to capture cash forward.

Mr. Nelson stated another issue is the closure of parks; there was concern that there are 113 parks Countywide; and there are some parks that the Board might say were not a good idea if the decision was being made in 1995. Mr. Nelson stated there are some smaller park areas that could be reviewed as far as utilization, and then some determination could be made as to their viability as parks. He advised of past experiences in terms of public response to proposed park closures; and suggested each of the advisory boards look at parks within their areas to determine whether there are opportunities for closure. He stated the recommendation may come back that what the County has is appropriate, or some may not be able to be closed because of the nature of their ownership.

Commissioner Cook stated closing parks would be difficult; some may think McFarland Park has low usage, but at lunch time it is full; and while some parks may not meet the level of usage, they serve an important purpose in their areas.

Commissioner O'Brien stated the City of Cocoa Beach took all its trash cans off the beach; dumpsters were put at various exits; and people insist that since the trash cans were removed, the beaches are cleaner. He stated the City is saving the money it spent every week to empty the trash cans; and it claims the beach is cleaner because people take their garbage off the beach if there is no place to throw it away. Commissioner Ellis stated those are not the claims he heard. Commissioner O'Brien conceded he also heard the opposite as well; there are two sides to the story; he is trying to find out which is the stronger side; and staff may want to track that for a while. Chairman Higgs stated she heard people want more trash cans as well as recycling cans for aluminum in every park. Commissioner O'Brien stated two people from Cocoa Beach approached him about forming a volunteer committee. Commissioner Cook stated another area that could be pursued is working with different community groups; and advised of experiences with Rotary Park in Suntree. Commissioner O'Brien stated Mr. Nelson is asking whether the Board wants to have passive parks or active parks; he is concerned about the active parks because they get the most use; that is where the dollars are being spent; while passive parks are also important, it is getting to where there are more passive parks than active parks; and the County has not purchased any active space in a long time. Chairman Higgs stated the County is moving on those issues in terms of active parks; she has no problem looking at whether there are parks that are not being used; but she does not know if that means the County will be able to sell off the parks. Commissioner Cook stated it is opening a can of worms; the Advisory Boards are groups of citizens; they may not be the ones utilizing the particular parks; and once the Board talks about closing parks, there will be people who use the parks who will object. Commissioner O'Brien advised he was at O'Steen Park all day and only saw five people there; it is a beautiful park; but the investment is $15,000 a year for maintenance; and it may be better to let the grass grow. Commissioner Scarborough stated the North Brevard Advisory Board has a problem with the Pinter property, and suggests it be sold as it is not used; and while he does not agree with wholesale closing of properties, if the County has acquired properties that are not of any benefit, it is not wise to have the County's resources tied up when the properties are of no use. He emphasized he does not want to close parks that are being used, but if no one is using the parks, he does not want to waste the resources. Commissioner Cook stated he does not have a problem with that, but the way the community is growing, something that is not used today, may be needed a decade from now; and his concern is abandoning the properties and selling them. He stated he does not mind looking at lowering the level of maintenance on parks that are not being used today to conserve costs, but would hate to be giving up properties at this point because all of them will have usage as time goes by. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if Commissioner Cook would find it acceptable if the County sold a park to acquire something else. He stated there is a property available next to Manzo Park in Titusville; funds could be redirected to a better use; and the County should not keep the current portfolio if better properties are coming on the market. Commissioner Ellis advised the Beach and Riverfront properties would have to be used that way. Discussion ensued on the possibility of selling some properties to buy others. Commissioner Ellis noted the Board voted against selling any Beach and Riverfront properties, but he did not support that vote. Chairman Higgs stated the language was different than what she remembered; but the Board did basically say that. Commissioner Scarborough stated he would not want to be locked in that position; and if he voted for that, he would want to change it. Chairman Higgs stated she would agree as long as the money went back to the Beach and Riverfront fund. Commissioner Ellis advised of a property purchased for $800,000 near Mathers Bridge which was supposed to be for a kayak park.

Mr. Nelson stated the Board will have the opportunity to address the Pinter property in July; and the Board will be able to reaffirm or change its previous stance of no sales. Chairman Higgs stated the Board will look at the policy and could include some criteria in the policy that would make it more palatable. Commissioner O'Brien stated he would never want to sell property and then spend the money on maintenance. Commissioner Ellis stated the Beach and Riverfront fund must be reimbursed if property is sold. Chairman Higgs stated Beach and Riverfront funds can be used for capital development at the front end, but not maintenance. Mr. Nelson stated one of the issues the Board will have to be sure it understands before it makes any decision is whether or not the money has to be used for debt retirement or whether it could be used for reacquisition. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board will need that answer. Mr. Nelson stated he would not want the Board to get blindsided by the fact that it has to go to debt retirement if that was not its intent. Commissioner O'Brien stated at some point he would like to see if the debt of the County could be reduced, and eventually get to the point of pay as you go.

Mr. Nelson stated the last issue is future priorities; he hears the Board saying the sites that are undeveloped that are passive in nature will be held for preservation or long-range use with the exception of those particular ones he may bring to the Board; and the Board will be looking at the future priority of active facilities which are sports or water oriented.

Commissioner Ellis stated the key is breaking out the General Fund by District because the active facilities cost more than the passive facilities. Commissioner O'Brien agreed, but stated they are used. Commissioner Ellis stated someone living in Melbourne, Palm Bay, Satellite Beach or Indian Harbour Beach pays a lot of money for City taxes to maintain the active facilities. Mr. Nelson stated as staff goes through the process, it will keep an eye on those kinds of issues so it will have that information for the Board's evaluation of costs.

Chairman Higgs inquired if there is any statistics on the assessments based on the growth of the County, showing ages and uses of those kinds of parcels. Mr. Nelson responded no; and stated the Comprehensive Plan references two standards, but does not adopt either. He stated it has a weak facility standard; and staff would like to propose a facility standard that is tailored to the County based on growth, ages of population, and usage.

Commissioner Ellis stated his problem with having parks in the Comprehensive Plan is that the Plan is based on the County, and there are cities that provide a large number of parks, so things are skewed. Mr. Nelson stated that is an issue that will be addressed in the revision; in those areas where the County is the recreation provider, it does not make sense for the city to have a recreational standard that is not providing any resources toward matching the need; and his assumption is the cities are taking those facilities the County is providing for compliance. He stated the Board needs to address that, and that will be part of the revision.

Mr. Jenkins inquired if Mr. Nelson is saying when the analysis is done, it will include the acreage and the facilities that the cities currently provide. Commissioner Ellis inquired why should it even be in the Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Jenkins advised it is mandated. Commissioner Ellis recommended the Board put the minimum in the Comprehensive Plan rather than tie the Board's hands in the future. Commissioner Cook agreed; and stated the Board needs to be conservative in its estimates. Mr. Jenkins stated it does mean there cannot be a plan, but it does not have to be part of the Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Nelson stated staff is looking for something that gives the Board a framework of where the County needs to be going, but is not so exclusive that it puts the County into a moratorium situation. Commissioner Ellis stated the City of Melbourne is considering building another park north of Post Road; it is not necessary, but it is in the Comprehensive Plan; and there is no money to maintain the new park or several existing parks. He stated he does not want the County to be in the position that the Comprehensive Plan is driving the building of parks but the County does not have money to maintain the parks it has. Mr. Nelson stated whatever staff would propose would continue to allow that flexibility but still provide an indication of where the County is in terms of recreational services.

Commissioner Ellis reiterated breaking out the General Fund by District will put a stop to each District thinking the other Districts are getting all the money. He inquired if Mr. Nelson is going to include the Wickham Park stables in the work on the campgrounds. Mr. Nelson stated no specific action was taken on the Wickham Park Campground, and his suggestion would be to hold off on it and take a look. Commissioner Ellis inquired if staff will do the analysis at Long Point Park first. Mr. Nelson advised Jetty Park and Manatee Hammock were the two that were going to be discussed first. Commissioner Ellis stated just because the County contracts something out, it is not given away; if the camping at Long Point Park is contracted out, the County would be paid for that contract; and the question is whether the contractor will pay more than the County is making on the camping. Commissioner O'Brien stated the objective for Manatee Hammock is to have the contractor pay the County a portion of its profits, which is what was done with the stores at Sebastian Inlet. Chairman Higgs noted the County does not do anything at Sebastian Inlet. Commissioner O'Brien stated the State did that, with 20% of the profits going to the State. Commissioner Ellis stated he would prefer a flat fee. Chairman Higgs stated her preference is to see where the County gets with Manatee Hammock and Jetty Park, and then move on the other parks. Commissioner O'Brien suggested looking not only at the State of Florida, but also at how things are done at Hilton Head, North Carolina and areas like that to see if anyone else has privatized in the same manner the Board is considering, and how they are doing. Commissioner Ellis stated the advantage of the flat fee is no analysis of the contractor's books is necessary; with Commissioner Scarborough agreeing. Commissioner Ellis stated the County has gone through this with the tennis instructors. Chairman Higgs stated if someone put in facilities at Jetty Park and amortized that cost, they would show a net loss over a number of years even though they would be making money; and that makes it difficult. Commissioner O'Brien stated that is why the County should make a short-term lease with automatic renewals based on certain facts; if there are problems, it is possible to get out of it; and that is how to run a business. Mr. Nelson advised the present concession agreements are for a percentage of gross, not a percentage of profit. Chairman Higgs stated she does not mind seeing potential scenarios for Long Point Park. Discussion ensued on possible actions the Board might take.

Commissioner Cook inquired what is the County looking at in terms of the campgrounds; with Mr. Nelson responding at this point his understanding is staff is to proceed with the discussion with the Port Authority on Jetty Park and the Manatee Hammock site, and will preliminarily look at Long Point Park and Wickham Park. Chairman Higgs recommended staff just look at Long Point in terms of the scenarios of how that could be operated, and leave Wickham Park for later. She stated all the Board is looking for at Long Point Park is what are the potential scenarios and what are the different ways that might work at this point; and that will come back to the Board before going any further; but staff will be moving on the other two.

Commissioner Ellis stated he requested some numbers on the Wickham Park stables as far as maintenance cost versus rental revenue.

Commissioner O'Brien advised of actions taken by a Teen Club Committee in his District, and the advantages of such an operation.

Upon motion and vote, the meeting adjourned at 11:45 a.m.

ATTEST:

SANDY CRAWFORD, CLERK

( S E A L )

NANCY N. HIGGS, CHAIRMAN

BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS

BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA