The Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, met in workshop session on July 13, 1995, at 1:35 p.m. in the Government Center Multipurpose Room, Building C, 2725 St. Johns Street, Melbourne, Florida. Present were: Chairman Nancy Higgs, Commissioners Truman Scarborough, Randy O'Brien, Mark Cook, and Scott Ellis, County Manager Tom Jenkins, and County Attorney Scott Knox.

DISCUSSION, RE: DUAL EMPLOYMENT

Commissioner Ellis stated a lot of material in the draft from the Commission on Ethics is not ethics related to holding two jobs; if the Board accepts the opinion, almost any second job could put an individual in the position of endangering public health, safety and welfare; and a lot of the things are policy decisions for the Board to make. He stated the ethics issue is whether someone on a County ambulance or with the Fire Department could be in a position to steer work to one of the private ambulances if there were five different ambulance companies and the person on the spot decided who to call. He noted the County does not have that situation; and a lot of issues in the opinion do not belong there.

Chairman Higgs inquired what is the status right now, and what are the Board's options. Assistant County Attorney Shannon Wilson responded she got confirmation from a representative of the Commission on Ethics that it has been continued to August 31, 1995. Chairman Higgs inquired what are the County's options; with Ms. Wilson responding the Board could request the Ethics Commission to withdraw consideration; it could ask it to proceed; or it could ask for reconsideration of certain portions of the opinion. She advised the Board could send a letter; and Julia Costas, Counsel for the Commission on Ethics, indicated that if the County had concerns, it should feel free to address them with her directly because she would like to work out the facts and circumstances that should be considered and any errors in advance of going to the Commission on Ethics. Chairman Higgs inquired if Commissioner Ellis wishes to send a letter to the Commission on Ethics. Commissioner Ellis stated the original letter was straightforward, but the reply does not address the two questions. He stated the second question is the one about the Statutes; and the Ethics Commission gave the opinion the County could not adopt an ordinance overriding the Statutes. Ms. Wilson stated the County Attorney's Office believes the Statute is relatively clear, and does not understand how it is being interpreted; but it is consistent with how it has been interpreted in the past. Chairman Higgs suggested directing the County Attorney to draft a response to the Ethics Commission raising the questions about its opinion.

Commissioner Cook stated he would like to discuss the letter from the Ethics Commission more; there are points that cannot be ignored; it is the business of the Ethics Commission to determine ethics; he thought the County was on strong ground; but the letter says "no public officer or employee of an agency shall have or hold any employment or contractual relationship with any business entity or any agency which is subject to the regulation or is doing business with the agency of which he is an officer or employee." Commissioner Ellis stated that is a scary opinion. Commissioner Cook stated that is the Code of Ethics for Public Officers and Employees; and it is pretty direct and straightforward. Commissioner Ellis inquired if anyone working for the County took a second job in any business that holds a County occupational license, would they be in a position to overlook something that might jeopardize the County license.

Ms. Wilson stated the opinion is not that broad; they are looking at the agency; and the definition of "agency" in the Statute is the lowest common denominator of the division of that agency the employee works for. She stated an example would be building inspectors working for contractors when they are supposed to be inspecting; and that is the kind of conflict the Ethics Commission is talking about; but if a building inspector happened to have a paramedic's license and went to work for a company, that is not the kind of situation the Ethics Commission would find to be a conflict. She suggested the Board ask the Ethics Commission to better define that and relay the concern that the draft opinion leaves the door open too wide.

Commissioner Ellis stated he understands why the Chief should not work for Harbor City because he has the ability to negotiate the contract; however someone who is strictly a firefighter or paramedic has no input into the negotiation of the contract with Harbor City. He inquired if it is proper to include the sphere of influence all the way down to the lower levels of the department. Ms. Wilson stated that is the determination the Commission on Ethics is trying to make factually; those are the kinds of questions Ms. Costas asked the County to respond to in trying to come to a decision; and she acknowledged the average employee is not involved in the contract negotiation process.

Commissioner Cook stated the Ethics Commission mentions liability; if someone works a shift with an ambulance company, and then comes back to the County and makes a mistake, his concern is whether the County would be liable as a result of allowing that person to have second employment. Commissioner Ellis stated that would be the same of any second job. Commissioner Cook stated this deals with health and safety which causes him more concern. Commissioner Ellis inquired what if someone worked as a roofer or plumber instead of for Coastal; there is still the same issue of coming to work tired from their second job; and that would be a policy decision for the Board to make as far as outside employment, and not an ethics decision. Commissioner Cook stated in the ambulance sphere, it is more direct because people are in emergency situations; his concern is heightened because there could be life or death situations; and he wants to insure that the people are rested, competent and trained. Commissioner Ellis inquired what if the County has them work two shifts; with Commissioner Cook stated that would also be a concern. Commissioner Scarborough stated people can stay up late at parties; and inquired if the County is going to say employees have to be home by midnight. He noted the same argument could go to a social pattern. Commissioner Cook stated he does not disagree; but if there was litigation, someone could say the County allowed the employee to work two jobs, and is therefore responsible. He stated if it is a conscious decision as a policy of the County, that could give the County some exposure. Commissioner Ellis inquired if that is the case, would the County be more liable if it had someone work two shifts for the County.

Chairman Higgs stated in this case, an individual is working full-time at both positions; and that is a little different than the way it was presented and the way she understood the issue. Commissioner Ellis inquired if that is an ethics issue; with Chairman Higgs responded it has been defined as an issue in the past. Commissioner Ellis stated it is not an ethics issue. Commissioner Cook stated they are claiming it is under the provisions of the Code of Ethics for Public Officers and Employees. Commissioner Ellis stated the conflicting employment relationship could apply to any County employee holding any other job. Ms. Wilson advised Ms. Costas acknowledged the kind of circumstance the Board is discussing is not an issue of conflict in terms of the laws as interpreted, and she did not intend that to be a reason for the decision; and on the first page, Ms. Costas advises the Ethics Commission will not second guess the Commission's concern. She stated in that sentence Ms. Costas is saying it is up to the Board; and the way she reads the opinion, Ms. Costas looked at the issue of doing business, was concerned about the indemnification, and with the issue of Coastal Ambulance, there was the issue of the ability to refer business. Commissioner Cook inquired why Ms. Costas quotes it as part of her opinion. Ms. Wilson stated she is singling that part out, but she does not believe she is saying just because a person works a 24 or 48-hour shift on top of another, that is the issue of conflict; but the conflict is whether that person is doing business. Commissioner Ellis inquired why does Ms. Costas say that twice, emphasizing it in the summation. He noted he is not privy to what Ms. Costas said on the telephone; he only has what has been written; and when it is the first reason, that is clearly a factor. Ms. Wilson stated Ms. Costas is listing her conclusions, but she can be asked to clarify that. Commissioner Ellis stated he does not know of any policy statement by the Board that the public's health, safety and welfare are jeopardized by having work for both. Chairman Higgs stated she does not think the Board said that. Commissioner Ellis stated that would be a policy decision by the Board; and if the Board said that the public's health, safety and welfare is jeopardized by working two jobs, it would apply to any second job that would have a person come in not fully rested. Commissioner Cook stated there is a difference with this occupation; and this is two full-time jobs. Commissioner Ellis stated the Board could set that policy; if an individual works as a paramedic and fills in with Harbor City, he may work one day a week, and that would be no different than working overtime for the County; and in early 1993 when he came on the Board, there were people putting in a lot of hours with the County, as much as if they had two jobs.

Motion by Commissioner Ellis, to withdraw the letter to the Commission on Ethics. Motion died for lack of a second.

Motion by Commissioner Ellis, seconded by Commissioner O'Brien, to direct the County Attorney to draft a letter to the Commission on Ethics requesting it stick to responding to the two questions put forth by the Board.

Chairman Higgs stated she will not support the motion in that way. Commissioner Ellis inquired how should it be worded. Chairman Higgs stated she would support a motion to direct the County Attorney's Office to draft a letter asking for clarification on certain points relevant to the issue of dual employment. Commissioner Ellis stated he does not care how it is worded; and the Board can argue about it when it comes back to the Board. Commissioner Cook stated he can support the motion with Chairman Higgs' wording.

Commissioner Ellis stated he is willing to accept Chairman Higgs' language as the letter will come back to the Board; and inquired if the letter comes back to the Board on July 25, 1995, will that allow enough time to get the letter to the Commission on Ethics. Ms. Wilson stated it should because it is a full month before the next meeting. Chairman Higgs stated in the letter the Board can deal with all the issues and request clarification. Commissioner Ellis stated the Board also needs to clarify some things such as what the Board's position really is. Commissioner Cook advised of his concerns about the original motion. Commissioner Ellis stated information was included that was not factual to the case; with Commissioner Cook advising he does not want to say that because he is not convinced of that.

Chairman Higgs stated the County Attorney will draft a letter and come back to the Board on July 25, 1995. Ms. Wilson advised of a conversation with Ms. Costas at which Mr. Arnold and Chief Farmer were also present; and stated both sides were heard. Commissioner Ellis stated the Board has never taken a position that firefighters shall not have a second job. Ms. Wilson stated it was never presented that way. Commissioner Ellis stated the presumption seems to have been made that a second job is detrimental to the first job. Commissioner O'Brien stated what they are saying is that a second job with an ambulance company can be detrimental to the first job; and it does not say that another job such as carpenter or salesman would have a detrimental effect because there is no conflict of interest. Commissioner Ellis stated it says it is potentially dangerous to the public's health, safety and welfare; and inquired how is that endangered by a second job on an ambulance versus a second job doing something else. Commissioner O'Brien responded it is stated as a conflict of interest; and if the firefighter responds to an accident scene and has to make the decision whether the County ambulance or Coastal Ambulance transports, that is the conflict. Commissioner Ellis stated he understands the issue with Coastal Ambulance; but in South Brevard, it is Harbor City Ambulance, and the County does not run ambulances. Commissioner O'Brien stated the second conflict of interest pointed out is that the numbers are not precise in terms of responders, and that could be detrimental to the entire plan. Commissioner Ellis stated there are seven or eight people involved in this; and seven or eight people could be on vacation at the time of a disaster.

Chairman Higgs called for a vote on the motion to direct the County Attorney to draft a letter to the Commission on Ethics requesting clarification of certain relevant points relating to dual employment, and return it to the Board for signature on July 25, 1995. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

REVIEW, RE: CURRENT LEVELS OF SERVICE FOR FIRE RESCUE

County Manager Tom Jenkins stated if the current system for Fire Rescue continues, it is going to require considerable additional funding; there are staffing level issues and equipment replacing issues; and the County does not have enough money realistically to meet it. He stated previously the Board directed staff to negotiate with the cities to see if a more efficient way could be identified to provide the service; and that appears to be the only practical solution. He stated there are a number of political obstacles in the way; and at some point, it will require some political leadership on the part of the Board to assist in this process to deal with the other local governments. He stated staff will try to paint a picture of what is out there now so the Board can deal with the issues of overlap and things like that, and will come back at a subsequent time with a model efficient system.

Public Safety Director Don Boykin stated staff is constantly addressing the issues of fire protection standards, response time, location of stations, and major emergencies. He stated the County has always had a mutual aid system for emergencies; and the County and the cities have to be on scene. He stated automatic aid has no jurisdictional boundaries, and the station closest responds. Chief Boykin stated the Comprehensive Plan led the County to place stations in strategic locations; however, many of the stations were already built; and there is overlap in many of the County's own areas. He stated the Capital Improvement Plan would move Station 20 in District 1 more in line to take advantage of the station; presently it is located on the far end of the boundary; and the overlap actually goes into the next County. He stated there is the same situation in Micco, Grant, the South Beaches, and Cocoa Beach; and staff has tried to stick with the plan with all the present stations. He stated the County has a model system; and the difference is the County's response is a six to eight-minute response, and the cities want a three-minute response time.

Mr. Jenkins stated there are two issues, medical response and fire response, and there are also rural and urban areas.

Chairman Higgs inquired if the three minutes is medical and fire response time; with Chief Boykin responding it is fire. He noted the majority of the cities do not presently run ALS. He pointed out the differences in the maps; and noted the proposed Viera station is currently unfunded, but is proposed to go online in January, 1996, and will require staffing. Commissioner O'Brien stated that will not affect Public Safety funding because under the DRI, Viera has to pay for that. Chief Boykin advised Viera will not pay for the staffing. Chairman Higgs advised Viera will build the facility; and the County will staff it. Commissioner Ellis stated they will also pay a Fire MSTU, so they will pay toward it.

Chief Boykin stated a recommendation that needs to move forward is the manning and staffing on engines; the County is in serious safety violation by having two people on an engine; and it needs to develop a plan to get at least three on an engine. He stated some of his problems in dealing with the cities on the automatic aid concept is the staffing to match the County's; and the cities are unwilling to look at that until the County develops a plan for minimum manning on the engines. He presented a map showing Brevard County with the overlaps; and explained how it would work in District 5. He stated the City of Melbourne at this time is not willing to go into any type of plan to go into a joint concept at Station 80, nor is it interested in automatic aid; but the City would be interested in automatic aid if the County brought present staffing up. He noted the City's concept of automatic aid is that it will send an automatic second engine, but will not be the first in. He stated there is coverage in the County; there are still certain areas such as Cocoa Beach and Satellite Beach which will require movement; and there are areas in the north and south ends of the County which have the same problems. He stated Station 20 is all volunteer; they need training as do the volunteers at Station 83; however, they are not available from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.; and Station 21 has to back up Station 20. He stated it is the same situation in Micco; there are four people in Station 21 which is Mims; but there are only two people in the south end and they are mostly ambulance personnel.

Commissioner O'Brien stated in Cocoa Beach, there was a fire a month ago; during the course of fighting the fire, the water pressure dropped; and inquired if there is any more information on what happened. Chief Boykin stated he is not aware of the situation. Staff advised the Cocoa water system comes south from S.R. 520 and stops at the south end of Patrick Air Force Base; it is not interconnected with Melbourne; and at a dead-end of a system, any opening of hydrants causes significant decrease. Commissioner O'Brien noted it was a City response, not County; and he was concerned that the City was not aware of that. He stated he hopes if the County responds to the no-man's-land south of Cocoa Beach, there will be an automatic call to the City's water supply requesting increase in pressure. Chief Boykin stated the recommendation is that the County have adequate water supply; the County bought tankers; and the water supply Countywide needs to be addressed. Commissioner O'Brien stated Brevard County is surrounded by water; and inquired if pumpers could get enough pressure out of the ocean, river or a pond to put a fire out. Chief Boykin stated it is impossible to get access to the ocean in many situations; and on South Merritt Island, where there is inadequate water supply, there was no access to the river when it was needed. Commissioner O'Brien inquired has there been any further progress moving the fire and ambulance from North Merritt Island to Titusville, leaving ALS with only a truck on North Merritt Island, and has there been any progress with negotiations with Cocoa Beach to improve the response to the Snug Harbor area. Assistant County Manager for Community Services Joan Madden stated the County is not moving very fast with Cocoa Beach, Cape Canaveral, or the Port at this time although there have been a couple of meetings. She stated the Department has been working with Patrick Air Force Base specifically to cover the Snug Harbor and south Cocoa Beach area for fire and ALS response; and that contract should be coming to the Board in August.

Chief Boykin stated he appears to be the only one at the Chiefs Association who feels they can do better business. He stated approximately $38,000 in taxes comes from the Cocoa Beach area; the proposal he got from the City was for $415,000 initial first year start up; and he had a similar situation in Titusville with Station 22 which sits on the edge of Titusville City limits. He stated the Titusville Chief feels there is a need for another station south of the City; he discussed the possibility of Titusville taking over Station 22 or joining in a joint station concept or contracting with the County for protection to South Titusville; and that discussion is still ongoing. He stated he will probably get a response from Titusville that will be similar to that of Cocoa, an offer to take over the station for "x" amount of money.

Chairman Higgs stated the County needs to do something different than what is being done. Commissioner Ellis stated the next step would be for him and the Chief to make a presentation to the Melbourne City Council. Chairman Higgs noted there are many cities. Commissioner Ellis stated they will do them one at a time; he is bothered by the situation on Wickham Road; and if there was an agreement on Wickham Road corridor, the County could have a four-man station, and the City could have a four-man station, and there could be automatic aid while meeting all requirements for a fully-manned station. He stated instead there will be two two-man stations, and the City will have a waste station set up at BCC. Chief Boykin stated when the Viera station comes in, there will be overlap in that area; and if Melbourne comes in with the station as proposed, there will be another duplication. Commissioner Ellis stated the City is overlapping itself. Chairman Higgs inquired if numbers have been run for a comprehensive system in which everyone played appropriate parts; with Mr. Jenkins responding not yet. Mr. Jenkins stated it is not known if it will cost more or less, and that is what needs to be done. Chairman Higgs stated she cannot believe it will not be more cost effective and provide a higher level of service for everyone for the cities and County to work together. Ms. Madden stated the key is for the cities and County to work together. Commissioner Ellis inquired what about on the beaches. Commissioner O'Brien inquired about the Viera station and the needs; with Ms. Madden responding there are two stations scheduled, one on each side. Chief Boykin stated that will be in the plans Viera submitted; and the final plan will be for three stations. Commissioner Ellis inquired if Melbourne runs from Eau Gallie Boulevard to cover the beachside, or is the County first response on the beach. Chief Boykin stated the County is first response to Melbourne's area on Eau Gallie Boulevard; there has been a gentleman's agreement for years; it is a trade off; the County covers the City of Melbourne's area on the beachside, and in return the City covers some of the pockets the County has on the borders of the County. He stated the County provides first response to the Melbourne Square Mall which is in the City and two miles from a County station; and the County has agreements like that. Mr. Jenkins stated Rockledge has a new fire station on the southern limits of Rockledge; and it would be better to locate the Viera station closer to Wickham Road where it could serve Suntree as well. Commissioner Ellis stated if the Viera station was closer to Wickham Road with four people in there, and Melbourne moved its station to where the County barn is, then there could be automatic aid, and all would have four-man stations. Commissioner Cook stated moving Rockledge down would be an assessment thing. Mr. Jenkins stated it would be necessary to change the current structure; right now Rockledge would not do that; and it would be necessary to pay Rockledge or subsidize or something. He stated Titusville is doing a tremendous number of runs from one of their fire stations in the unincorporated; they are actually doing more runs in the unincorporated than in the City from one station; and the City is asking what can be done about that. He stated that is the kind of issue that needs to be addressed; and getting the entire County to do it will be a challenge. Commissioner Cook stated the difficulty is some cities are more cooperative than others; it used to be that each District had its own Road and Bridge Department; and it was difficult to get that switched over.

Chairman Higgs stated everyone is tired of business as usual; it is time to do things in an effective way; and this should start with what is most imminent. She stated everyone should start the discussions; and she is willing to do whatever is necessary to get this straight. Mr. Jenkins stated when Chief Boykin talks to the Fire Chiefs he is not getting the response; there is not a city in the County that is not strapped for money; and it needs to get to the elected official level for the system to be more efficient. He stated to do this, it will be necessary to deal with a couple of issues and make a commitment; the cities will not be willing to settle for two-man trucks; and the second issue is the County relies on volunteers in some areas, and it will be necessary to limit the volunteers to the unincorporated areas that do not serve cities. He stated the cities will not be willing to provide three or four paid people with the County providing volunteers. Chairman Higgs stated she is ready to do whatever is necessary for this to work in a sensible manner; the way it is being done does not make sense; and it has to get to the political mechanism and go do it. Commissioner Ellis stated it needs to go to the city councils; with Chairman Higgs agreeing. Commissioner Ellis stated he would be glad to go with Chief Boykin to talk to the Melbourne City Council; the City is not going to budge; it is building a station at BCC that even the Melbourne firemen do not understand; and it makes no sense. Chairman Higgs inquired if anyone has a problem with staff getting together a portfolio of information that is needed, and starting with the most directly affected area, begin talking to the various entities. She stated the Countywide model is needed with the dollars and cents worked out; and that may be fairly expensive. Commissioner Cook stated that was the whole idea behind the Charter; people want more consolidation and efficiency; and this is a step in that direction. Chairman Higgs stated she is not looking for County control; with Commissioner Cook agreeing. Chairman Higgs stated any assumption that the County is looking for control of the Countywide mechanism is not correct; and the County just wants to see it work for everyone. Commissioner Ellis stated the County is stuck with the two-man stations; but if it can work out some consolidation and automatic aid, it can have four-man stations. Mr. Jenkins stated Karl Thompson of the Union suggested there may be a need or benefit from a Countywide coordinating council for public safety. Commissioner Ellis stated the thing would be to get the cities. Chairman Higgs stated that gets into the issue of control; and she is not worried about control, but how to deliver the service in a better way. She suggested taking a little step to deal with the Wickham Fire Station. Commissioner Ellis stated there is nothing to control as the stations respond as needed in an emergency situation. Commissioner Cook stated he is not getting that it is a control issue; with Mr. Jenkins disagreeing. Commissioner Cook stated it is natural that the County would have to take the lead in something like this by virtue of the mechanism; and he is happy to move forward. Commissioner O'Brien stated he has met with the Mayors of Cocoa Beach and Cape Canaveral as well as representatives of the Port many times to redesignate the layout of all the equipment from Port Canaveral to Patrick Air Force Base; and they are coming to small terms where the Port now may be willing to purchase an ambulance to keep at the Port, and also man it at their cost, and perhaps move some equipment to the fire station located at the corner of S.R. 520 and A1A. Ms. Madden advised preliminary discussions have begun. Commissioner O'Brien stated with an agreement with Patrick Air Force Base and ultimately the City of Cocoa Beach, they will become more cooperative and less money hungry to have full coverage; A1A from S.R. 520 to just south of the Holiday Inn is the only road; and trying to get an ambulance through there and out to Snug Harbor is impossible. Chairman Higgs stated there is consensus that the Board is ready to do what it takes to get it done; staff has the ball; and it will advise what needs to be done.

Chief Boykin noted he made reference to his seat on the Brevard County Fire Chiefs Association as President; that group has moved from a monthly luncheon meeting to a more active situation; and he will furnish the minutes of the last meeting. He stated the group is holding workshops in Viera; it is setting goals and objectives; and what the Board has been discussing is part of that.

Commissioner Ellis suggested going to the Melbourne City Council after meeting with Chief Chamberlain so he will be fully informed.

Commissioner Cook stated the Board barely touched on the issue of funding; and that will be a major issue as far as whether this is going to cost more or less. Commissioner Ellis stated looking at the overlaps, he does not know how more could be spent.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he and the Titusville Fire Chief have met with the City; the Chief, City Manager, and Council are all new; there are a lot of tentative remarks in that regard; and he would not want to read into that a lack of desire to proceed. He advised of problems that have been discussed; stated the City is sympathetic; and it is the City's constituents wanting to do things as well as the Board's. He suggested proceeding with Commissioner Ellis and Commissioner Cook's dialogue first, and by then there may be some maturing, and he can go to Titusville. Mr. Jenkins stated the City Manager of Titusville and the Fire Chief came to the County to talk about this; and they have expressed a desire to work together. Commissioner Scarborough stated that is what he was reading; but they do not have their feet on the ground yet and do not want to be pushed.

Chief Boykin stated the Palm Bay Fire Chief is willing and open to look at issues in that area to provide more coverage. Chairman Higgs stated there are big gaps. Commissioner Cook stated the City is looking to serve its residents just as the Board is looking to serve all of the County's residents; it is positive; and he is ready to work on it.

Chairman Higgs stated she recognizes doing a financial model may be very time consuming. Mr. Jenkins stated staff will come back to see how practical it is in terms of implementation.

DISCUSSION, RE: MICCO AMBULANCE SERVICE

Emergency Management Director Mark McMichael stated there are a lot of ambulance systems; one is the Micco Ambulance; and it is funded differently with a different level of service.

EMS Chief William Farmer stated the question is whether it is going to be run consistently throughout the County. He stated in the north section which is from Barnes Boulevard to Volusia County, ambulances go to a call, pick up the patient, the whole group goes back, and the patient gets a bill; in Micco, an ALS ambulance with paramedics is run to the call, and the Micco volunteers respond in an ALS ambulance with EMT's. He noted this question came up yesterday at the State EMS meeting; and that may not be allowed any longer. He stated presently the ALS ambulance is run with EMT's only; the crews take care of the patient; and then they split the paramedics, with one paramedic staying with one of the volunteer EMT's on the primary unit, and the other paramedic and EMT respond to whatever hospital they are transporting. He stated that is the only area where the County ambulances are staffed with one paramedic and one EMT; and at the conclusion of the transport, the patient does not receive any bill.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired what would happen if the training level for volunteers was enhanced and the paid ambulance was taken out of it. Chief Farmer stated presently Micco has the strongest volunteer organization running the ambulances; but at certain times they have difficulty staffing the ambulance; and it has been necessary to pull resources from Indian River County and from other fire departments to staff the ambulance. He stated there are times when they do not respond; and the inconsistency of the response being a possible liability is a concern the Board would have to deal with. Commissioner O'Brien stated the population in that area is not that large. Chairman Higgs advised it is pretty significant. Chief Farmer stated compared to the surrounding area, it is pretty dense. Mr. Jenkins stated it is approximately 10,000 people. Chairman Higgs stated there are 8,000 to 10,000 people; there is a circle of service; and per square mile, it is as dense if not more dense than Cocoa Beach. Chief Farmer stated the other issue is there are only two paid firefighters from Palm Bay south. Chief Boykin stated Micco furnishes ambulance in that area. Commissioner Ellis stated he sent a letter about the possibility of having a paid firefighter in Micco. Ms. Madden stated at Micco there are two. Commissioner Ellis stated the two people are with the ambulance; with Chief Farmer advising they are cross trained and are firefighters as well. Commissioner Ellis stated when they go with the engine, they cannot go with the ambulance; and north of Pineda, there are two for the ambulance, and two for the engine. Ms. Madden stated staff can look further at that as it looks at the entire system so the level of service and response time is more consistent.

Chairman Higgs stated the issues with regard to Micco are how to do the assessment, whether the County is going to take $10 or $11 more and continue to deliver non-billable service, and the level of service. Chief Farmer stated it is inconsistent with the rest of the County's service. Mr. Jenkins inquired how is in inconsistent. Chief Farmer stated on every other ambulance the County maintains there are two paramedics who see the call from beginning to end; and that is not the case in Micco. Mr. Jenkins stated there are two paramedics on the unit; with Chief Farmer advising they do not do the transport, but split, with one paramedic going with the patient and the other staying with the auxiliary unit to keep an ambulance in Micco. Chairman Higgs inquired if there are output measures that show there is a difference in the level of service and patient outcome. Chief Farmer stated he cannot do that at this time. He advised at the State level, it became an issue of allowing this kind of service where it is supposed to be ALS service, but instead the response is BLS and there is a split in the field; and the State has seen that as a concern. Chairman Higgs inquired if the State said the County could not do that or expressed concerns. Chief Farmer responded the State said it had a concern with regard to the staffing; and if it is an ALS unit, it must be an ALS unit 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Chairman Higgs stated there would have to be two paramedics; with Chief Farmer responding the County is one of the few services in the State which provides two paramedics on a rescue unit; the State requirement is one paramedic and one EMT; but the Board two or three years ago determined that the County units would be staffed with two paramedics. Commissioner Ellis stated it was a critical situation; and the goal was to get to two paramedics. Ms. Madden advised that is not true in Harbor City delivery area; Harbor City does not run with two paramedics; but everywhere the County runs units, there are two paramedics. Commissioner Cook inquired what is the pay differential between paramedics and EMT's; with staff responding approximately $5,000 per year. Mr. Jenkins stated a number of years ago this County made a decision that every paramedic had to be a firefighter; and he asked staff to revisit that issue. He advised there is a constant demand for pure paramedics who do not need to put out fires; then there is a group that can be both because they have to move back and forth between ambulances and fire trucks; and the County would save money if it had some pure paramedics. Commissioner Ellis stated his concern was the other way; and it may be possible to get more staffing if there were some who were just pure firefighters. Mr. Jenkins stated the County could have some pure firefighters, some fire-medics, and then some pure paramedics; and it would need a mixture at some point to go back and forth. He advised the County also does first responder, and some of that EMT training is helpful. Chairman Higgs stated an ALS unit must have two people. Chief Farmer noted that is the State regulation, and one must be a paramedic, and the other must be an EMT. Commissioner O'Brien stated if there is a medical concern in Micco, they have the one EMT; it is an ALS unit with one paramedic; and inquired what is the concern. Chief Farmer stated for personnel, the County is okay; the problem is the County is responding as an ALS unit, but there are two EMT's; and the State has given a variance saying it is okay to respond that way, but it is not okay to transport that way. Mr. Jenkins stated the County is not doing that; with Chief Farmer advising the County is holding on scene sometimes waiting for the second unit to get there to split the crews; and on occasion, there are increased periods of on scene time waiting for the second ambulance. Commissioner O'Brien stated the volunteers get there before the County does; with Chief Farmer disagreeing. Discussion ensued on the method of transport in the Micco area. Commissioner Ellis stated if the County transports, it has no one left at the station; if there is a fire and the volunteers are not there, the place will burn; and that is his point about having firefighters. Commissioner O'Brien suggested the volunteers be upgraded to ALS through training; and that way there would be eight to ten available. Mr. Jenkins stated if there were some pure firefighters in the station, then the paramedics could transport. Chief Farmer stated the crews could be split that way; but it would still be inconsistent with what the Board said on two paramedics per transport. Chairman Higgs stated that was a policy decision by the Board. Commissioner Ellis stated if Micco has a high number of volunteers, it may not want to go for the twenty-four/forty-eight shift. Chief Farmer stated that goes back to Mr. Jenkins' concept of rural and urban, taking a look at what is needed in the outlying stations where there is less population and in the more dense populations such as Merritt Island. Mr. Jenkins stated an alternative would be working eight to five. Commissioner Cook stated the demographics of the area would be important as well. Chief Farmer stated one of the issues that came up is Station 84 has one of the highest percentages of ALS calls in the chart because of demographics.

Chairman Higgs inquired what staff wants; and stated staff is raising the issue in regard to level of service, and it is not a hot issue in the community. Ms. Madden stated the rationale is to get some direction from the Board about whether it has a concern about the inconsistencies that exist; and if it is comfortable with that, the question is whether the Board wishes to pursue getting a consistent level of service. Chairman Higgs stated she is not sure she is concerned about the paramedic/EMT issue; she is not concerned that the County is providing less of a service to those people; and she does not hear anything from that community but positive things at this point. She stated she would look at consistency Countywide. Commissioner Ellis stated his concern is putting some firefighters on and floating them with an engine; the problem is in West Melbourne, when they respond to a rescue call, they take the engine, which does not make a lot of sense; and if they had a truck and firefighters, the engine could be sent one way and the truck the other way. Commissioner O'Brien stated consistency might not be important. Commissioner Ellis stated different stations have different needs.

Chairman Higgs inquired if the Board should consider how essential it is to have two paramedics on each rig. She noted she is not suggesting less than two people; if there is a consolidation effort, probably there will be three people on a rig; looking at the financial picture of $5,000 more per unit, the County is not going to be laying people off, but looking at traditional people; and she was not convinced that her constituents got better service in some other way.

Karl Thompson, representing the IAFF Union, advised the two paramedics is in response to the American Heart Association recommendation that two advanced ALS providers be available on all cardiac calls; that was the approach that was taken two years ago; and two paramedics is the minimum. He stated how the two paramedics get there is still open for discussion; and if it was possible to facilitate ALS engines, the Union would be happy to look at other alternatives in that area. He stated the greatest number of responses is in the cities; it is necessary to insure there are two paramedics; and the only way to do that is to ride them on the ambulance. Mr. Thompson stated the difference between paramedics and EMT's is only 86 cents an hour; and that does not work out even to $2,500.

Commissioner Cook stated he is not willing to abandon that position today; he was not on the Board when the decision was made; and he would like to do some research on it.

Chairman Higgs stated she does not hear anyone voicing great anxiety about that issue. Commissioner Ellis stated he thinks the County needs to put some straight firefighters on. Commissioner Scarborough stated he likes that; but the problem he hears is someone waiting for something else to arrive in Micco because time is of the essence. He stated shuffling crews around may be negligent. Commissioner Cook stated he is also concerned about that. Chairman Higgs inquired how can that be solved; with Commissioner Ellis advising by getting firefighters. Commissioner O'Brien suggested raising the level of the volunteer group; if six volunteers are presently EMT's, they can be asked to take training; and they gladly will do that. Chief Farmer stated training is not an issue; the issue is recruitment; recruitment is down nationwide; and everyone is experiencing that problem. He stated for the first time ever Harbor City has put a booth at the International State meeting to try to recruit. Commissioner O'Brien inquired how many volunteer EMT's do they have at the present time. Chief Farmer stated he knows they have two paramedics which they recently got; but it has been an ongoing problem. Chief Boykin stated they had many paramedics that were volunteers in the past, but through turnover or whatever reason, the volunteers do not hold onto that.

Commissioner Cook suggested staff address the concerns for Commissioner Scarborough as waiting on site is a general concern. Chairman Higgs stated some creative solutions are needed.

The meeting recessed at 2:55 p.m. and reconvened at 3:10 p.m.

*Commissioners O'Brien and Cook's absence was noted at this time.

DISCUSSION, RE: FUNDING

Chairman Higgs inquired if the issue is the assessment, and how the County is charging. Mr. Jenkins stated this deals more with co-mingling the funds; and the problem is trying to break out that which is precisely fire and that which is precisely EMS because there is a lot of overlap. He noted it may be that fire may be paying more than it should be, and EMS should be paying more; and staff is proposing to have the flexibility to put the money into one pot. Mr. McMichael stated what staff has been working with is the flexibility to do exactly as Mr. Jenkins says; the Auditor's Report has noted there are inconsistencies in that area that need to be addressed; and what staff proposes doing is looking at the legality of combining those funds. He stated one situation that is most prevalent is in the Micco area where half the staff is funded on fire and half is funded on the ambulance end; and the only way to do that properly is to count how many times the individuals go out, and adjust accordingly. Mr. McMichael stated that is not practical to do; and suggested a more uniform funding mechanism.

Chairman Higgs stated there are two different things; Mr. McMichael is talking about the whole system for fire and EMS; but in Micco, it is another deal. Mr. Jenkins stated there are two issues; theoretically the County could keep the current rate structure, having a fire MSTU and an EMS assessment; and the proceeds could be put together. He stated another option is to eliminate either the MSTU or the assessment and have one level; if someone lives in an area where the County provides ambulance, there would be one level of billing; if someone lives in an area where the County does not provide ambulance, such as Harbor City, there would perhaps be a lower bill; but to have one bill by splitting the services up in terms of funding is difficult to match it up.

*Commissioner O'Brien's presence was noted at this time.

Chairman Higgs inquired what staff wants from the Board; with Mr. Jenkins responding permission to investigate the issue and come back with recommendations.

Commissioner Ellis inquired if the recommendations will be for Micco; with Chairman Higgs responding no, Countywide. Ms. Madden advised Micco is used as an example because both of the calls down there are answered on EMS side. Commissioner Ellis stated in South Brevard, people pay "x" amount, and the remainder comes from the EMS assessment which he always thought was supposed to go to Emergency Management. Ms. Madden clarified it goes to Emergency Services, not Emergency Management. Commissioner Ellis stated that money is not used for the Fire Department; with Ms. Madden agreeing. Mr. Jenkins described examples. Commissioner Ellis stated in the South Brevard area it is pretty straightforward; with Mr. Jenkins agreeing it is much less of a problem. Mr. McMichael stated some issues down there are remote from the ones normally seen; the radio system would serve the County; that money is committed to a contract and to administrative costs; and so, when a Countywide cost comes up in the EMS field, the north section ends up funding it or fire funds it. Commissioner Ellis inquired what happens with the differential in the South Brevard EMS; and stated it is not just a straight pass through. Mr. McMichael inquired if Commissioner Ellis is talking about Micco or Harbor City; with Commissioner Ellis responding in the Harbor City area, they are billed $15 and pay Harbor City $10 or $11. Mr. McMichael stated it is not figured that way; there is an amount in the contract; they figure in that amount plus the cost to dispatch them, and overhead and administration; and those costs are tagged on; but there is no contingency built in for repair, etc. He stated the need for a new radio antenna or those types of things are not unusual; and those types of costs, especially in the Micco area where there is the ability to go into fire funds also, are footed by the other two funds. *Commissioner Cook's presence was noted at this time.

Commissioner Ellis inquired if in the Harbor City area, the differential was only enough to pay for dispatch; with Mr. McMichael responding the differential goes toward dispatch, transfer of training money, administration, and a small amount for the 800 trunking. Ms. Madden advised the rest is put in reserve. Mr. McMichael stated that money is limited by the Ordinance; and it either has to be used for capital equipment or go back into the system to reduce the assessment for next year.

Commissioner Scarborough advised of the rates by area of the County; and inquired why is there differentiation between the residential rates. Mr. McMichael responded the central and north areas are partially funded by billing; and the South Brevard area has free service, but pays a higher assessment. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if the fire MSTU is strictly for the unincorporated area; with Mr. McMichael responding yes. Mr. Jenkins advised some of the cities are under it, such as West Melbourne. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if West Melbourne pays into the County's MSTU fund; with Mr. Jenkins responding affirmatively. Commissioner O'Brien inquired how about Cape Canaveral; with Mr. Jenkins responding no. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if the EMS is incorporated and unincorporated; with Mr. Jenkins responding yes. Commissioner Scarborough stated when this is mixed and matched, there will be all kinds of different theories.

Mr. Jenkins stated the County has separate rates for fire and EMS; and suggested merging those rates and having a tier level based on the level of service. Mr. McMichael stated that flexibility is needed to be able to shift money to a major system improvement or a major problem; many times there is leftover money; and the total of the leftover money could fund a fire truck, etc.; but the restrictions do not allow that. He stated for the past two years there has been more money in EMS than in Fire; so when a cost comes up in the system, it is taken to where the money is; but when the auditors come around, they will say an inappropriate amount of EMS funding is being spent for Fire. Commissioner Ellis inquired how would it not be separated. Mr. Jenkins stated it is really the same service; Fire may be bearing a disproportionate cost of the total system cost; so there is money left over with EMS; and if there was a two-tier rate system with the two services combined in terms of funding, the costs would be based on the level of service, but the money could be applied to the system as a whole. He stated it is being funded as two systems, but in reality, it is one system. Commissioner Ellis stated one is an assessment thing, and one is a millage rate. Mr. Jenkins stated it will be necessary to go one way or the other. Commissioner Ellis inquired how a millage could be applied in the incorporated area. Mr. McMichael stated staff is asking to study the legality and impact of combining; it has been done, and is working in some places, although he does not have the specifics; and the study will come back to the Board.

Commissioner Cook stated he has no problem with splitting out the cost; but inquired if people will be paying a disproportionate rate, subsidizing other areas of the County.

Commissioner Ellis stated his other concern is what if Melbourne decides it is too much and contracts with another ambulance service. Chief Farmer stated the City cannot do that without the County's permission; the ability to try and do that went to legislation this year, and was put down; and so, it still remains County rule.

Chairman Higgs stated she does not have a problem looking at it; but she is having a hard time because it is not that simple an issue. She suggested staff bring this to the Board in a couple of steps, providing some specifics for study; and then staff will not be wasting all its time. She stated she would be happy to look at it, but it is hard.

Commissioner Cook stated he wants to know why it was set up as County rule in the first place; and he needs to understand the reasoning. Mr. McMichael advised it was Statewide; and it was to prevent fragmentation. Commissioner Cook stated he would like to get some information back.

Mr. Jenkins stated staff will come back to the Board with a model system.

Upon motion and vote, the meeting adjourned at 3:25 p.m.

ATTEST:

SANDY CRAWFORD, CLERK

( S E A L )

NANCY N. HIGGS, CHAIRMAN

BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS

BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA