January 20, 2005

The Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, met in special workshop session on January 20, 2005, with the Brevard Legislative Delegation, in the Government Center Florida Room, Building C, 2725 Judge Fran Jamieson Way, Viera, Florida. Present were: Chairman Ron Pritchard, Commissioners Truman Scarborough, Susan Carlson, Helen Voltz, and Jackie Colon, Interim County Manager Peggy Busacca, and County Attorney Scott Knox.

Also present were: Representatives Ralph Poppell, Thad Altman, Bob Allen, and Mitch Needelman, and Senator Mike Haridopolos. Absent were: Representative Stan Mayfield and Senator Bill Posey.

COMMENTS FROM CHAIRMAN OF THE DELEGATION

Representative Ralph Poppell, Chairman of the Brevard Legislative Delegation, thanked the Board for letting the Delegation join with it to go over the balance of issues concerning the citizens of Brevard County. He stated they want to work for the people they and the Board represent; and they are going to give them a good hearing and see where they go from there.

REPORT, RE: LEGISLATIVE ISSUES

Chairman Pritchard stated it is his intent to come out of this meeting with a better understanding about where the legislative issues that the Board presented may go and the realistic opportunity as to funding. He stated if the Board has a better chance of pushing one through than some of the others, maybe it should take a more precise direction in that endeavor; but if it has the opportunity for all it requested, it should do so. He stated when Representative Allen gets here, he is going to ask him to talk about the additional funding for beach renourishment; and inquired if Senator Haridopolos has something he wants to cover.

Beach Renourishment Funds

Senator Mike Haridopolos stated they had a very good year with the special session; he applauds the efforts of the County in getting those numbers to the Delegation; and he thinks the people of Brevard County are quite pleased with the dollar amount coming in. He stated in the last few years, they sponsored bills to get beach renourishment dollars; they also have a request for dune restoration; Theda Roberts has done a good job getting that forwarded to them; and he just wants to make sure they have the request in and that they are in a good position should those dollars be available. He stated the Governor’s budget came out and those funds are available; and Brevard County should get its fair share because they all recognize the fact that the property tax, which is the tax base for not only Brevard County but the local economy, would be better off if the beaches are restored. He stated it is not a once in a lifetime opportunity, but an opportunity where the Governor has once again increased funding for beaches; so he hopes they have the request in at the appropriate time so they can make use of those dollars that Brevard County is absolutely entitled to.

Chairman Pritchard stated it came to their attention Friday afternoon that they had an opportunity to make another request for additional funding and took advantage of that opportunity; and inquired if Interim County Manager Peggy Busacca had the paperwork they did on that; with Ms. Busacca responding no, but she can get that and will ask Natural Resources to come to the meeting. Chairman Pritchard instructed Ms. Busacca to call Natural Resources to get the paperwork here so they can explain what it is they are requesting and how it came about so quickly on Friday. He stated it literally started at 2:00 p.m. and the deadline was 5:00 p.m.; so they were scurrying to make sure they had a place at the table.

Impact of Article V on Brevard County

Assistant County Manager Stockton Whitten advised his memorandum of January 14, 2005, gives a summary of what staff thinks the cost savings are going to be in regard to Article V; it goes over the revenues and expenditures; and he can go over it or answer questions if the Board wants him to. Chairman Pritchard requested Mr. Whitten tell the Board what the bottom line is. Mr. Whitten stated the first sheet of the spreadsheet has a box in the bottom left that talks about revenues and expenditures, the differences between those, and the decreases in the State’s share revenue, but not the half-cent sales tax, which was actually reduced for counties as a result of Article V; so the bottom line on the chart is $2.2 million. He stated the County actually lost an additional $900,000 in terms of the half-cent sales tax because of being capped for growth; so the bottom line for Article V savings was actually $1.7 million; and that is what the County used in regards to savings on expenses it is not obligated for this fiscal year because of Article V. He stated in turn staff used those savings to balance the budget and provide for other funding priorities of the Board. Chairman Pritchard inquired if a significant portion of it is being used for beach renourishment; with Mr. Whitten responding beach renourishment is actually being funded from DJJ savings, pre-detention of juveniles, which is a separate issue. Mr. Whitten stated the budgeted amount for DJJ was $2.1 million; as the Delegation is aware, the courts have said the counties are not obligated this year to pay that expense; so the savings were $2.1 million and $900,000 of that were used last week for beach renourishment. Chairman Pritchard inquired if it is a one-time net savings for the County; with Mr. Whitten responding staff considers the DJJ savings a one-time net savings. Mr. Whitten stated unless there are provisions in the legislation that are going to come out in the Spring, Article V savings is recurring; the Board is investing those into other priorities for local programs; and it still has the debt on the courthouse; so it has utilized all of the savings for local programs or continuation of local programs and to pay the debt service on the courthouse. Chairman Pritchard inquired if the Board has to expand the courthouse because of the additional two or three judges, what would that cost; with Mr. Whitten responding staff is preparing an Agenda Report for the first meeting in February on that; it is still working on the cost estimates; and it is estimated to be, for two floors, between $1.2 and $2 million, which has not been funded and does not include the annual operating cost. He noted there is a potential in the Governor’s budget for five to six additional judges for Brevard County. Chairman Pritchard stated it is not like the County is getting flushed, and it is lucky to break even; and inquired what is the opportunity for Article V to come back with the original intent of having counties pay the costs.

*Commissioner Colon’s absence was noted at this time.

Representative Mitch Needelman stated he will address the DJJ issue first because Brevard County was part of the lawsuit that was brought forth by the Association of Counties, which included the unfunded mandate issue. He stated being a member of the Appropriations Committee and also the Vice Chair of the Juvenile Justice Committee, he has been tasked by the Chairman to sit with the Association of Counties to see in the next three months if they can hash out some kind of middle ground in which to make a determination on the responsibility of the agencies of DJJ, the State of Florida, as well as the counties, and to determine what a demarcation line is; so there is still a problem they wish to look at coming up with a solution through the appropriations process. He stated it is not a mandate, but more of a cost-share concept instead of a cost-shift concept; and it is a golden opportunity to look at the whole arena of criminal justice, not just the DJJ issue within criminal justice. He stated he is very familiar with the Board’s issue of taking State prisoners that has cost it millions of dollars like other counties throughout the State; so it is an opportunity to put those things on the table and look at a way to resolve those costs. Representative Needelman stated in dealing with Article V, he has been involved with it since being elected and has spent some time on it in the process as part of the Appropriations Committee; one thing he has noticed is a lack of communication between Tallahassee and Brevard County of what those figures are; and he is not pointing the finger at anyone in particular. He stated when he sits at Appropriations Committee hearings and listens to the dollars of Article V, he is looking at Brevard County at about an $8 million additional revenue for expenditures; it is the way they crunch the numbers out; and he would like to give the Board some history as they go through the process. He stated in October 1998, the Florida Tax Watch Group that helped the County push this through referendum stated that the Florida property tax base could benefit from the reduction in property tax rate and enhance local programs and services; they did the mathematics on that; and it is equivalent to $5.66 million. He stated that estimate was given in 1998; again in 1998, the Florida Constitution Vision Commission looked at those costs, and without including the cost of the Clerk of the Courts as part of that formula, stated, “relieves counties of $200 million in costs of operating State Court system, freeing up those funds for local use”; and that was the driving force that moved the Constitutional Amendment forward. He stated recently, because of the laws dealing with DJJ, those issues were brought up as to what the costs are; the judge made the determination that savings was not part of the revenue source; therefore it was an unfunded mandate; and that is what the judge based his decision on. He stated what was interesting that came out during the testimony set forth and the declarations that were made was that it showed there were different statements made in which the counties alluded to and stipulated to that the savings for the individual counties would be somewhere between $288 and $327 million. He stated last year the Association of Counties took a position that there was a savings by going to Article V and they have the affidavits to show that if the Board wishes to look at them. He stated the bottom line is how they crunched the numbers, and one of the things that he is working with staff on, because he wants to make sure Brevard County receives its fair share. He stated if the Board looks at the total amount of savings projected for this year, it is $288 million; its $1.7 million of additional funding puts Brevard County below the average of $3 million per county if split equally among all the counties, which they cannot do because of the difference in sizes; so they need to know where some of the losses are and things that were not calculated into it. Representative Needelman advised he will leave the information with the Interim County Manager so she will have the opportunity to see what he is talking about; he had them crunch the numbers into twelve different categories; and one of the cost savings that was not included in the calculations of savings for Brevard County was the dollars that would be saved with the operation of the Clerk’s office that the County would no longer have to fund. He stated he understands the Clerk’s office in Brevard County is fee oriented; but if they go through the process and look at the past, they see that Brevard County supplemented some services. He stated the numbers range somewhere up to about $14 million; this year, by law, they are only allowed to exceed 103% of what it was last year, which would put it at $14.7 million; and some of those costs are not being passed on.

Representative Haridopolos requested a copy of the information Representative Needelman has because he is throwing out a lot of numbers and is going to lose him. Representative Needelman stated he would be glad to give staff the documents to make copies for the Delegation and Commissioners. Chairman Pritchard inquired if Representative Haridopolos wants to see the numbers now; with Representative Haridopolos responding yes because Representative Needelman is talking about numbers none of the people have a clue about, so maybe the staff can make copies of it.

Representative Needelman stated one of the issues, besides the lack of communications, deals with numbers coming out dealing with traffic tickets; the County shows $197,000 on its schematics, but somehow the State has come up with a calculation of $642,000; and that is almost half a million dollars difference. He stated the long and short of it is if they could open up the lines of communications between the Appropriations staff in Tallahassee and the County staff in Brevard County, they could have a better understanding of exactly what dollars are being saved or being spent and they can have some real figures to work off of. He stated it is very difficult, as a Representative in Appropriations, to come up with the request of the counties when he is told differently in Tallahassee; and if they could spend some time in the next few weeks as they get ready to go through the appropriations process, Jim Debeaugrine, the Appropriations guru, is willing and ready to sit down with the County and look at those figures and give the Committee a true figure so it knows where it is at. He stated they are showing different numbers and different ways of assessment; and he wants to make sure that when he is up there with the Delegation that they are in a better position in which to protect and preserve the County’s position on the loss or revenues generated through Article V.

Ms. Busacca advised they can make staff available to meet with the gentleman at his convenience to discuss those issues and hopefully come up with a common set of numbers.

Chairman Pritchard inquired how could staff have a difference of almost half a million dollars in traffic violations; with Mr. Whitten responding he does not know specifically which fee that was for; there are two or three different fees; and when developing the budget they can go on projections that are not really local projections or they can look at the history of traffic fines and revenues in Brevard County and make a projection off of that. Mr. Whitten stated he thinks staff’s projections are closer to the actuals from the last couple of years; so they budgeted based on what they knew the actuals to be. He stated there are FAC projections, local projections, etc.; so there is going to be some discrepancies or some sort of difference of opinion in regards to which projections are best.

*Commissioner Colon’s presence was noted at this time.

Representative Altman inquired what is the fiscal impact of the DJJ cost share to Brevard County; with Mr. Whitten responding the fiscal impact to Brevard County this year is $2.1 million; that is a positive fiscal impact because the County is not having to incur that expense so it has a savings of $2.1 million on the books; however, the Board has taken $900,000 of that and applied it towards the emergency beach berm project. Representative Altman commended staff for an excellent report, noting it was fair and objective. He inquired if they took a full fiscal year and the process of cost shifting it back to the counties, what would be the fiscal impact of the DJJ; with Mr. Whitten responding $2.1 million.

Chairman Pritchard advised the $2.1 million was budgeted for DJJ but then the Board did not have to fund it so it got it back in terms of not having to spend it; it was money that had been set aside; the question would be with all the unexpected events that they seem to have if they keep cost shifting a lot of the programs then one of them is going to suffer; and since the State’s money seems to come from the citizens of Brevard County, he would rather see the State suffer. He stated the cities feel that way about the counties; inquired why should he feel differently about the State; and commented that suffering rolls upward. He stated he hopes the Delegation understands the County’s dilemma especially if it gets an unfunded mandate; and when they have a situation where they have set aside x amount and get it back, they also have expenses that come with it. He stated if the County gets judges, it has to pay for numerous things and it becomes a question of what services does the Board cut; so from his perspective, what he is looking at is dialogue that goes between them as well as certain levels of accountability and responsibility as to how they are spending his money and the net effect it has on the Board’s ability to provide various services that the constituents demand, which are also the constituents of the Delegation.

Senator Haridopolos stated Representative Altman asked for that number; it sounds like it is $2.1 million they want to make sure they are all on the same page; and as Representative Needelman said, their numbers are different from the County’s numbers. He stated the other number he would like to see is what was the budget in Brevard County many years ago and what it is today; there has been some jockeying back and forth of what the County’s budget numbers are as a whole; and early in the conversation with Commissioner Voltz mentioned it. He stated some people say there are some misrepresentations in the paper; shocking he knows, but he thinks if they have a true number of what the budget was in the last four years on this and other issues, they can better analyze where they need to go. He stated if they can find the official budget numbers that would help him; he served on the Growth Management Committee and they are having a difficult time with counties trying to figure out the number of what the budget was year in and year out for the last four years with one county doing it one way and another county doing it another way; so as they talked about the issues, which are more than legitimate cost shifts, he thinks the Chairman brought up a good point that they want to know because in an emergency appropriation during the special session they allocated over $60 million to make sure Brevard County did not pick up the cost this year because of the lawsuit. Senator Haridopolos stated he does not know if that is in the County’s best interest to sue the people to get money back, but everyone has his or her own way; and he would like to see, as a hard number, what the County’s budget was for the last five years and what the final number is as it would be helpful. He stated what the County anticipates this year would be helpful because unfortunately they are having difficulty at the State level even ascertaining that number. He stated Representative Needelman has budget figures before them that will become more concrete; and they will be comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges because in the budget world they are dealing with, sometimes they are not even on the same page and that is no way to negotiate. He stated they want to make sure they do not have unfunded mandates; he serves on the Article V Committee and saw that a large surplus is coming back to counties this year; Brevard County’s number is $2.1 million and maybe adjusted a bit, but it is still a significant sum; however, they want to know the true number because Article V is still a work in progress. He stated if they work together, the Delegation with leadership of Chairman Poppell will help bring the sides together; they can find the true numbers and find the price tag; and it will do Brevard County fair; but if they are still fighting over the basic numbers to negotiate, they will never come up with a solution and will pass the buck. Senator Haridopolos stated in the Senate side, they are poised to say the way they look at things they coughed up an extra $60 million this year in special session; so there would not be any fight over this because they had some surplus and knew how hard hit they all were by the hurricanes but they were not going to have an additional six months to work on it and if nothing else, if the County has legitimate budget numbers to work with, they will come up with a fair solution; and that is the bottom line. He stated everyone is committed to that; they have some excellent experts in the field that have already been displayed; so they are ready to work on the numbers, and it will help them dramatically because some times those numbers are misrepresented whether they like it or not.

Representative Needelman stated for the first time this year he saw a real move in Tallahassee to work on Article V and find out what that baseline is so they do not get into that tug of war that they have seen over the years with education on what the true numbers are; and that was the message he was to bring here today from the Appropriations Chair, to sit down with County staff and the Commissioners individually and look at those numbers to see where or how they are miscalculating to see if they can accomplish what was set forth in 1998 with Article V. He stated he cannot stress how important it is to have the Delegation at the table to look at the DJJ issue that has been floating around since the 1970’s; the Board now has an opportunity for direct input on what role it feels the County needs to play in the DJJ arena; so he would encourage any ideas, criticisms, thoughts, etc. that would be positive or negative. He stated without spending the time in the next three months to look at that, what was passed in special session will take effect; they have an opportunity in which to turn that force around; so he would encourage the Board and staff to come up and bug them on the issues they feel are important because now is the time.

Representative Altman stated it is unfortunate that the combination of DJJ cost shift and Article V has created a huge rift between the State Association of Counties and the Florida Legislature; the dialogue in the paper is heartbreaking to him being a former County Commissioner; and he went to the Speaker and pleaded the County’s case and conveyed to him what it feels like when one sits in the Commission Chambers with 500 people in the audience and try to balance the budget. Representative Altman stated the Board has no control over half the budget; the constitutional officers do not vote on the budget but collect $120,000 a year salaries and half the budget; and the Board gets beat up about where it is going to get the money, whether from employees or services. He stated that is what constituents complain about because it is about mosquito control, garbage and sewer service, animal control, law enforcement, etc. He stated he asked the Speaker to try and improve that dialogue, and he agreed to try and talk to all the former county commissioners in the Legislature and form a county caucus. He stated they want to create a dialogue between leaderships; the counties did the right thing by filing a lawsuit; county commissioners take the same oath as State representatives; the first thing they do when they take office is take an oath to uphold the Constitution; and that was a Constitutional question. He stated when the Board feels the Constitution has been violated, it would have been derelict in its duties to raise taxes on its constituents if it did not fight to uphold the Constitution; that was the right thing to do; and he tried to convey that to the members he spoke to. He stated it is not correct to penalize the counties for exercising their Constitutional duties; and public dollars should be used in the most public beneficial way. Representative Altman stated he understands the leadership felt Article V should be neutral and should not come out of the hides of the State or counties; so they worked real hard on the judicial appropriations to split it evenly. He noted it looks like they did a pretty good job because the County’s cost savings from Article V is $2.1 million and its expense for DJJ cost shift is $2.1 million; and that is exactly what they were trying to achieve. He noted the two of them who voted with the counties last session got beat up pretty bad; that was the argument they were trying to make; but they felt it was a cost shift in the late hour of the session and the counties needed more time to adjust to that shift. He stated he thinks the counties can run DJJ a lot better than the State; they can do probably 95% of the tasks better than the State; and government closest to the people governs best. He stated he understands both sides; they did try to make that neutral; they have to link Article V with the DJJ cost shift; and they cannot look at either one independently. He noted some of the leadership from some counties were maybe a little heavy-handed; the key is to move forward; the DJJ cost shift and Article V is a work in progress; but the big policy issues are behind them and they need to foster a positive working relationship between the State and the counties. He stated he told staff they need to praise the legislature when it does things they like; they do not hear that; it is important to work for better dialogue; and he hopes they can get as many of the Commissioners in Tallahassee during session because it does make a difference when commissioners are there. He stated there are a lot of legislators who never served in county government; the ones that did have an understanding; but they are a small minority. Chairman Pritchard stated he appreciates listening to a former county commissioner who is a State Representative recognize the dilemma the Board has, which is the same dilemma the State has as it gets beat up by the cities and the State gets beat up by the counties. Representative Altman stated had the tides been turned, the legislature would have done the same thing the counties did; and he does not doubt that for a second.

Commissioner Colon stated she appreciates what Representative Altman said; coming from a city background, she tends to be more sensitive to what the needs are on the local level also; and she does not believe in pointing fingers because it does not accomplish anything. She stated the style of how it is done is crucial; if any of them have any issue about something that is going on, it is best to pick up the phone and ask; and she tries to have that kind of relationship with the municipalities in Brevard County. Commissioner Colon stated she has a few questions today but is not going to accuse the State of anything; she wants to get an understanding so they can work together; and inquired if there is something the State is doing to champion it on its end so the citizens are able to understand. She stated the Commissioners will get the phone calls if they do not understand what is going on; and it is crucial that they have that approach. She reiterated that pointing fingers at each other is not going to accomplish anything; stated it would create animosity; and elected officials who have worked closely with local government cannot help but be good advocates for their constituents because they see it on every level. She stated she has questions, not accusations about things that are going on with Children and Family Services so she can be enlightened about some of the changes that are going on.

Commissioner Voltz stated they all received the letter from Representative Joe Negron, which she thought seemed like a retribution attitude of how dare the counties do this to the State and they should not think they are going to ask us for something. She stated that is not the way they ought to work together; they might have a disagreement on an issue, but to do something in retribution is wrong; and she does not think the citizens want the Commissioners or State Representatives to act like two-year olds. She stated she does not know if there is something they can do to prevent that attitude from destroying any relationships that they might need to build in the future; and maybe during the legislative session that is coming up, they can talk to Representative Negron. She stated she does not know who he is, but it was the wrong attitude; and it was not a very good letter.

Representative Altman stated he talked to staff at the Florida Association of Counties and they were concerned; they met with Chairman Negron of the Appropriations Committee; they said he was very cordial in their personal meeting with him; and some of the statements may have been misunderstood. He stated they felt comfortable from what he said to them personally about that; it is good to have the Commissioners call him, he is very accessible and open to dialogue; and Commissioners can communicate their concerns about that. He stated to read the public reporting on some of those comments is frightening; and what he was trying to do was communicate the mood and not how he felt or what he was going to do, but to try and communicate the animosity of the situation. He suggested the Commissioners not be afraid to call him; he takes his role as Chairman very seriously; there is remarkable trust in him; and he would encourage open dialogue, and he will respond to that.

Chairman Pritchard inquired if Mr. Whitten had any comments about the spreadsheet provided by Representative Needelman; with Mr. Whitten responding when they contact the State staff, the first talking point will be Column 3, which is the $14.6 million savings from the Clerk of Courts operations; that is a huge number; so their first issue is how was the spreadsheet built; and he thinks they can get to the numbers. Commissioner Carlson inquired if staff can shore those numbers up by what Representative Needelman asked for in terms of contact with folks to make sure those estimates turn into actuals; with Mr. Whitten responding their process in terms of developing the Article V budget was to sit with the Clerk, Public Defender, and State Attorney and ask the simple question of their costs; they looked at the legislation, matched up the costs, and their savings are again not $8.6 million but closer to $2.2 or $1.7 million; and they have a good feel on where their costs are. Mr. Whitten stated part of the issue of the disconnect between the State and local savings is how they define savings and how they define Clerk of Court savings and revenue projections; they feel safe taking their projections rather than somebody else’s; and they are talking about maybe $300,000 to $400,000 difference. He stated the big difference comes in the projection of the savings and the Clerk of Courts; and that is $14.6 million; however, the County is not spending $14.6 million less for the Clerk’s operations.

Chairman Pritchard stated he appreciates staff bringing it to the Board’s attention.

Financial Flexibility

Ms. Busacca advised staff has several legislative issues; there is a general concern that counties have flexibility in increasing their gas tax without a super majority and utilizing tax revenue sources that are available; now they come with strings; and some of those strings make it difficult for local governments to utilize those. She noted Chairman Pritchard has specific concerns about that; and Mr. Kamm is here to talk about road funding issues.

Transportation Planning Director Bob Kamm advised the topic is financial flexibility is much broader than transportation, but some of the examples do relate to transportation funding. He stated one issue that has been around for a number of years is indexing local option gas taxes; indexing is to adjust fuel taxes to compensate for inflation and maintain the buying power from year to year; indexing is routinely done for social security, pension funds, and an array of other things; and he is sure everyone is familiar with the rationale behind it. He stated specifically in Brevard County, it has in place six cents for local option gas taxes (LOGT), and each raises about $2.5 million, so annually Brevard County generates about $15 million in LOGT funds. He stated if they assume a 2% increase in the Consumer Price Index (CPI) that would mean an increase in the revenue of about $300,000 for one year; the Agreements with the cities split revenues 50/50; so under the 2% CPI increase, Brevard County would receive about $150,000 and the cities would divide $150,000 according to a formula. He stated it is not a major revenue generator, but it does get at the issue of flexibility and equity; the State gas taxes have been indexed to the CPI since 1985; and inquired if it is good public policy at the State level, why is it not good public policy for the local gas taxes to be indexed on the same basis. Mr. Kamm stated there has been discussion over the years about adding more tools to the local governments transportation funding toolbox so that there are different options available for different governments in different situations; there is flexibility on the LOGT right now; it is an interesting map; and he wants the Delegation to see the basic pattern that shows the levy of gas taxes across the State. He stated Franklin County is at 5 cents; 13 counties are at 12 cents; 23 counties are at 6 cents; and 26 counties are at 7 cents; so 49 counties out of 67 counties are at the 6 and 7-cent level and 13 are at 12 cents. He stated it is not population based; Orange, Pinellas, and Duval Counties are at 6 cents; so it is not a question of has the transportation issue become so bad that there is a need to raise the gas tax in response. He stated Columbia and Suwannee Counties in the north of the State are at 12 cents; so it is difficult to understand why there is this pattern of some have and some have not. He stated it is an issue he raised two weeks ago at the Delegation meeting that the first six cents of the LOGT can be enacted by a simple majority and the remaining 6 cents authorized under law requires a super majority; that has always been a problem; and Senator Posey offered that the Legislature wants to make sure local officials believe the problem is serious enough for changes to generate the additional gas tax levy. Mr. Kamm stated he looked at the map and tried to reconcile that but did not see the pattern develop as Senator Posey suggested; two weeks ago when he mentioned it, many of the Delegation members had not been briefed on that; and he is not sure that has occurred; and Senator Haridopolos had background on it. He stated he believes it is going to be unveiled in a major way perhaps next week; and offered his staff to assist the Delegation as it comes forward if it would like to discuss any of those issues.

Representative Poppell inquired if the different variations are because some counties are large and some are small; with Mr. Kamm responding Senator Posey commented on why they have a different threshold for gas tax and he was looking at the map and trying to make sense of it; but does not see the pattern. He stated rural counties in the North have a higher gas tax but Orange County with major traffic issues is at 6 cents; and he does not see a real pattern. Representative Poppell stated a lot of small counties are at the max on their millages; they raised all the money they can and are probably going to the different sources to try and get revenue, where as Brevard County is fortunate that it is not there; therefore it does help the citizens of Brevard County. He stated there are 37 small counties in the State; and 15 of them are at their maximum millages. Mr. Kamm stated that is a good point. Chairman Pritchard stated the counties that did not have a diverse revenue source were using the LOGT.

Representative Allen stated he represents Orange County; one of the sensitivities there is the tourism industry is price sensitive; there seems to be high rates there and there is always competition; so they have an interest in keeping the gas tax low. He noted that is why the Legislature gave a tax holiday in August to help kick start people to know it is safe and profitable to come and drive in Florida; and that is one thing they did in that area. He stated the tourism issue is always on the minds of the decision-makers in Orange County; the volume of larger counties is different than six cents to Levee County; so that is why they have not seen a need to raise the gas tax uniformly.

Senator Haridopolos inquired if the County has a list of how the current gas tax is being spent in Brevard County; with Ms. Busacca responding they can make that available. Mr. Kamm stated it is spent largely for maintenance. Senator Haridopolos stated that would be a good discussion to have. Senator Haridopolos stated he follows elections because sometimes he is involved in them; when the County was asked to raise one penny for sales tax, the overwhelming vote was two to one against it; and when he talked to the people, their number one complaint is their property taxes are really high. He stated a lot of people see the gas tax as regressive; people go to work and use their vehicles going from work site to work site and drive many miles a day; if the Board raises the tax by six cents, that would be $1.20 a week to people; and right now the Board has the opportunity by a four to one vote to raise that tax, but it is asking the Delegation to make it more lenient to raise taxes. He stated the State revenue increased, but not as fast as the County revenue in the last four years; there is no appetite for a tax increase; if nothing else, the voters want government to stay off their backs and not tax them any more; and the biggest question, before asking for more taxes, is how they are spending the money currently. Senator Haridopolos stated a lot of people are concerned that the way they are spending taxes is not as effective as they can make it; he trusts the Board is more fiscally conservative and is going to move in the direction to spend most wisely; and that way when they go to the taxpayers with a potential tax increase, they can make a much better argument because the current argument is not holding water. He stated the one penny sales tax went down even though the proponents for the tax increase vastly outspent the people who were against the tax increase; and that sends a strong message. He stated the Board is reasonable; and if it sees an overwhelming need for a tax increase, it could secure four votes; so he does not know why it is asking the Delegation to loosen the purse strings further. He stated it is a local issue; he cannot find an election where a person said he would raise taxes and won an election in Brevard County; commented on the editorial board of Florida TODAY; and stated the vast majority of people he spoke to say they are overtaxed.

Representative Altman stated he was on the Board when the gas tax was raised; had the Board not gone to six cents, Malabar Road, Evans Road, Nasa Boulevard, Wickham Road, Fay Boulevard, SR 3, and Minton Road would all be two-laned; and the Board would be facing gridlock and economic depression. He stated Grumman would not have moved to Brevard County; that was part of the economic package to bring it here; and the County worked with Kennedy Space Center to get SR 3 four-laned. He stated he does not think the gas tax is a tax; it is a user fee; they only pay when they drive a vehicle; and if Brevard County does not have adequate funding for roads, it will not have economic diversity and growth. He stated the cost of improvements increased dramatically because the Board delayed it; right-of-way costs increased; congestion became a problem; so there is a legitimate argument whether to go from super majority to majority vote; but there is another option to get a referendum on the gas tax and give the public the opportunity to communicate. Representative Altman stated the other thing the Board did when it raised the gas tax is lowered the transportation MSTU tax by over 40%; where people are hurting is property taxes; and there is a serious problem in the State with people having to pay high property taxes. He stated since he was on the Board at the time, he does not think it would have done it with four-fifths majority vote; it was hard enough to get three votes; taxes are not popular; but they knew it was a user fee and would save the citizens money because they would have less driving time, less wear and tear on their vehicles, and the benefits were there. He stated he does not know if it is doable and may eventually happen; this is one of the things they are talking about, dialogue between counties and the State; and they should address in a proactive sense giving the County more flexibility to address serious community needs.

Chairman Pritchard stated he looks at the LOGT as a user fee; the idea of indexing it to the CPI is because the cost of materials continuously go up, but the amount of revenue is fairly flat; but one thing the County has done wrong is shifted some dollars from LOGT for items other than roads directly; and that is one of the things that they need to identify and start taking the money back that belongs on roads and transportation from other programs it is paying for. He stated if there are no monies to pay for those programs that used LOGT funds, then the Board needs to address whether it needs those programs. He stated the money paid for LOGT should go directly to roads; and that is what the people drive on.

Commissioner Voltz stated the County has not used the gas tax funds in the manner they were supposed to be used for; the general public wants the County to widen existing roads and pave roads to alleviate traffic problems; and the County has not done that, so this budget session they need to work towards pulling the money out of where it is right now and put it back into doing the roads.

Mr. Kamm stated lest the public misunderstand what the Board is talking about, Florida Statutes has a specific list of activities that LOGT can be spent for; and the County is spending it on things that are legitimate under the Florida Statutes. He stated he did not want anyone to misconstrue the discussion. Commissioner Voltz stated the general public assumes they pay the gas tax for roads and the roads are getting widened; they do not want to pay for staff or whatever; and they want roads paved. Mr. Kamm stated it has been his experience that the public does not have any idea how expensive the projects are; the widening of Palm Bay Road coming up in a couple of years is a $45 million project; widening U.S. 1 for 5.5 miles in North Melbourne is $70 million; and the County gets $15 million a year from LOGT. He stated the County cannot pay the bills with the revenue it has to meet the demands; the public will pay one way or another either through a user fee such as the gas tax, or increased congestion, lost time, inefficiencies, frustration, etc. He stated Brevard County is at the edge of where it is really going to start getting bad and congestion is going to be a problem; they see it in a few isolated locations; the projects Representative Altman talked about were done ten years ago; but the County does not have the revenue to keep up. He stated that is the bottom line; that is the County talking to the Legislature again; the projects are incredibly expensive; the revenue stream the County has in place is not adequate; and the barriers that have to be crossed to raise those revenues are very difficult for many counties to surmount.

Commissioner Scarborough stated LOGT has been spent on roads; what happened is the LOGT was originally allocated for new roads and expansion of existing roads; and rather than doing some things it could have, the Board did not want to increase property taxes so Mr. Jenkins took LOGT for operating of the road system and regular maintenance; therefore, there was less available for construction. He stated the other failure was not extending the LOGT; the Board had the opportunity and rather than going ahead and doing it, knowing it could have done it, then going back and bonding it out and have the money to do construction at lower prices, it delayed it much longer than it needed to. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board had an opportunity to again advance programs before they became more problematic; it failed to do that; the complaint does lie with the Board and its failure to go ahead; it looked to do more maintenance with LOGT as opposed to doing projects; and the further it gets behind the more expensive it will get. He noted the sales tax was an attractive option; and inquired what would the County get from the gas tax and sales tax; with Mr. Kamm responding the sales tax would have generated $60 to $70 million a year Countywide, and the LOGT, $2.5 million. Commissioner Scarborough stated the thought was also perhaps they could touch education and the prison issues; the County has been remiss in handling the jail problems; but it did not work. He stated he does not know what the Delegation can do to help the County with those local problems because they are basically local issues the Board has to deal with.

Representative Allen stated the State had similar discussions on the trust funds for transportation about how much was borrowed and used from the trust fund to do other things instead of transportation items; so they are fighting that same issue in Tallahassee on trying to keep trust funds for transportation to meet State needs. He stated some municipalities have the same crisis of going after confidence of the voters to get the yes vote; Richard Crotty in Orange County tied it to some tax relief on the property side in exchange for the one penny sales tax; and confidence building of the School Board on their construction issues did get approval after being denied every time at the ballot box. He stated the best description he heard about some of the issues is keep the citizens informed so they can understand the logic of going forward with fees; every entity uses fuel to transport groceries, materials, etc.; and even if he sits at home, things go up in price because of taxes and not because he is out driving an SUV. Representative Allen stated the mechanism Senator Posey talked about is simple; the Legislature wanted to make an extra hurdle before people can go to the tax well; philosophically they all agree on that; and Commissioner Scarborough said a lot are local issues that require local bridging of confidence to get the local support. He stated if the Board can get that handled, he thinks the four/one majority the State designed will work so the Board can raise taxes easily and possibly go to referendum if necessary. He stated he is not eager to go to Tallahassee in the current environment and champion for lesser standards for raising local taxes unless there is an overwhelming request from his constituents.

Representative Poppell stated a lot of good conversations have come from this meeting; city, county, state, and federal governments, if they have the money, will find a place to spend it; so the Board should redefine priorities and look at it at a later date if monies are actually necessary. He stated a couple of times something was said about property taxes; every time he hears people talk about property taxes, he thinks about Constitutional amendments; and he hopes they can separate that because they do not need any more Constitutional amendments. He stated they need to be careful with the Constitution because that alone costs more dollars in the long run by having to adhere to all those things. Representative Poppell stated it was stated how the public has no idea how expensive the road items are; likewise when they go to Tallahassee, if the public votes on something, they cannot correct it; they can only correct the things they vote on; so it scares him and he would like to keep in mind looking at other ways to solve problems other than amending the Constitution.

Commissioner Voltz advised she has to leave but wanted to announce there is a community- based fund raiser, a big Superbowl party on February 6 to raise money for kids; and she would appreciate anybody who wants to come out and help.

Commissioner Voltz stated there has been some important funding issues discussed today; and the Board needs to look at the possibility of hiring a State lobbyist.

*Commissioner Voltz absence was noted for the remainder of the meeting.

Chairman Pritchard stated Representative Allen brought up a good comment on confidence building; there is a level of confidence the public does not have that the Board is spending its money appropriately; it is the taxpayers’ money; and until the Board can achieve a level of confidence with the public so they know what the Board says is accurate, they are going to be hesitant toward doing anything other than being reluctant to pay additional taxes. He noted he supports that because he does not advocate additional taxes. Chairman Pritchard stated the indexing according to the CPI based on the LOGT is another issue; how the LOGT is being spent is the issue and how are the other things; money for license plates that were supposed to go for specific causes are going to other causes; and that is why he stopped his Challenger plate that he had for years. He stated when people buy into something, they expect what they buy into; and until the Board achieves that confidence level, which he intends to do in the upcoming budget year, it will be hard pressed to ask anyone for anything additional.

Representative Needelman stated there is a movement to look for the same type level of fee increases across-the-board in Tallahassee also; so it would be difficult to have the County request that from the Delegation when it is seeing the same movement occurring. He stated making sure the transportation funds that are collected for transportation are not being spent for health care and education like they did last year is important; but he assures the Board they will not see those put back in the trust fund. He stated if they cut $230 million for education, they would have parents and students screaming at their doorsteps; the Delegation wants the Board to know that attitude is growing in Tallahassee also with the special four/five before fees and taxes are increased; and the time for this request does not sit well right now.

Commissioner Colon stated in November 2000 she asked for that kind of accountability every year during the budget process; it is 2005 and she finally hears that kind of honest discussions in regards to where the dollars are going from the gas tax; and it is important to get the trust of the community that wants to make sure the dollars will go there, but there is so much education that has to be done by everybody. She stated the folks expecting Palm Bay beltway are under the impression the County has been sitting there doing nothing; it had almost ten years of studies; once the Governor did his formula where the dollars will go and the requirements they wanted, those dollars on the local level were done; but there are no dollars for Palm Bay beltway; so people locally think it is the City Council and County Commissioners’ fault. She stated there are things happening in Tallahassee that the public is not aware of; the public does not see that; trust and honest discussion are critical to move on; and she has been criticized by Florida TODAY that she does not do her homework because she refuses to raise taxes; but it needs to do its homework and be at the budget hearings where she demanded accountability and did not get it, but expected her to approve the sales tax when the questions were not answered. She stated the Delegation is not going to listen to the County if it does not have its act together; it is not going to champion anything if it does not feel the County has its act together; and she is sensitive to that because if Jackie Colon asks anything from the Delegation there is a trust factor that comes in because she knows that is really needed. She stated she would not ask for anything that she feels the County has not tried everything within its power to get dollars for.

Chairman Pritchard stated the bottom line is that if the State index the CPI, why cannot the County, and why not have it built in so that as the cost of materials goes up, the cost of the user fee goes up to pay appropriately, otherwise the County will fall behind.

Protect Local Government from Liability Resulting from Beach Mitigation

Chairman Pritchard requested the Delegation advised the Board whether or not it would fly or if they are wasting paper. He noted Item (1) is to protect local government from liability resulting from beach mitigation.

Interim County Manager Peggy Busacca advised Virginia Barker is not here, but the issue is that Florida Statute waives sovereign immunity for claims arising out of improvements made as mitigation projects; and it is becoming a more significant issue as they have to deal with beach renourishment and mitigation that is causing it. She stated there are so many people who use the beachfront that they see a significant amount of liability on the part of the Board; so they requested creating a new subsection, which says sovereign immunity is not waived for claims arising out of improvements.

Representative Needelman stated it would fall under the Board more than that; but he will be glad to work with County staff to see what the issue is. He stated this is the second time it has been brought up; and if they can get some direct case relationship with it or some instance, it would help. He stated dealing with immunity is a touchy subject; the late Senator Futch lost the fight with the signs for rip currents; the Board took that on as something necessary to protect the citizens; but he will be glad to look at it and see what the issues are and work with staff to see how that can be addressed.

Creation of a Statewide Retiree Health Benefit Plan

Human Resources Director Frank Abbate advised everyone is familiar with the health care situation and crisis they are starting to face as spiraling costs continue; in that area, one area that is becoming more accented and a concern for local government and the State is the retirees and their health care benefits; and the County is asking the Delegation to consider partnering with it to look at the feasibility of creating a State health care program that would provide consistent health coverage for retirees who are in the Florida Retirement System and one that would be cost neutral to the State and local governments by funding the cost through the FRS in terms of the premium they pay and the retirees pay based on years of service. He stated what the item would do is to see if they can get an actuarial study done on a statewide level so they can look at the feasibility of doing a program of that nature; and it has been looked at in areas through the Independent Benefit Council, which is made up of school board representatives, superintendents, and the teachers union, etc. Mr. Abbate stated the County pays about 1.1% of its contributions to the FRS for health insurance subsidy; $5.00 for every year of service is a rough estimate they were able to get; depending on how it is structured, it could cost 2%; so that health insurance subsidy would go away and the retiree situation would be taken care of on a Statewide basis by increasing slightly the FRS contribution level. He stated it will also take care of a growing problem for the County by the end of December 2006 if the issue is not addressed, as they will face a potential problem with Gadsby 45, which is an accounting standard that is going to require local government and public sector to account as a liability future costs associated with retiree benefits. He stated it is something that is not done now but will affect the County’s bond ratings and things of that nature; so there is a multitude of reasons why they think it is a good opportunity, and hope the Delegation will support taking a look at whether or not a Statewide retirement health plan is feasible.

Chairman Pritchard stated the estimated cost is $75,000 to $100,000 for the actuarial study.

Senator Haridopolos inquired what is the average cost of a benefits package to a County employee currently; with Mr. Abbate responding when they look at the health care benefits, it is between the 33 to 38% range. Senator Haridopolos inquired about the retirement program; with Mr. Abbate responding the County participates in the Florida Retirement System and that retirement program fluctuates between 7 to 15% depending if it is special risk or regular. Senator Haridopolos inquired if the County’s new employees have to define benefit or define contribution or is it still flexible. Mr. Abbate stated it is flexible; under the FRS each employee has the option of which of the two programs; it is something that just came into play; the County did have a defined benefit plan only, and that changed a couple of years ago; and now they have the option for defined contribution as well. Senator Haridopolos stated defined contribution can control cost in the future and people control their own plan and it becomes flexible. He stated people may not want to work for the government their entire lives; maybe they will come to that realization quickly; but he hopes they explore that option too because it is talking about liabilities down the road and defined contribution plan would be flexible with the retirement program; the County puts in their share; and when an employee leaves and goes to a private sector they can take the retirement with them if they do not serve out the ten years to get into the system. He noted he hopes the employees are educated enough to know that option should they choose to leave County employment. Mr. Abbate stated FRS is very active in trying to provide information to all employees about those options; and they have the opportunity to change their selection during the course of their employment as well. Senator Haridopolos stated it would be a good exercise but he does not know if the cost would be that cheap the way the State does things, but it is something they should support and look at cost savings. He stated he would like to explore it.

Commissioner Scarborough stated the bond ratings, nothing is worse than having to pay more interest; and any way they can pay less interest and they did not run numbers on that; but sometimes hidden costs can come back and hit the County more than it realizes talking about all the money the County borrows and if it degrades the bond rating and they have to pay more then they think they have saved but they have not. Chairman Pritchard stated one of the things the Board needs to look at is the large unfunded Capital Improvement Program because it is so large and unfunded, it can affect the County’s bond rating.

Representative Needelman stated to bring the Board up to date on some stuff that has been occurring in that arena, retirees have brought forth to him a number of issues with the health insurance; what is happening is more and more employees are being moved into the select exempt positions, which insurance costs are picked up by the employer; and those additional costs are being shifted to those who are hourly and retirees. He stated that is what is causing the concern that is occurring; he is still working with the Department of State Administration to look at how to bring Brevard County School system into the program and making sure retirement is up to 2%, but allow them the opportunity to get into the health care system that is provided by the State. Representative Needelman stated if the population is below 150,000, the School Board has that option; Brevard County is above that; and one of the things that was brought to him this year was instead of using $5.00 per year, to look at percentage of years served to offset the cost. He stated if they go with the investment part with the State, which the County is allowed to do for six years, he needs to sit down with the staff because there is a window of opportunity with the State Department of Administration since it is looking at that right now because of the potential cost. He stated last year for retirees was $1,000 per month; they were able to put that on hold, but that horse is ready to get out of the gate right now; so the Board’s timing is good. He noted he needs to sit down with staff and see what the concerns are and take that to the Department of State Administration because it is doing that study now. Mr. Abbate stated the issue Representative Needelman raised about depending on years of service would be reflective of how much would be paid in premium, which is the concept they are trying to move forward.

Representative Allen stated one line says, “From a Statewide perspective, it may be possible to increase health care coverage for a number of retirees while providing this coverage at a lower cost as a result of the purchasing power available to a large group.” He stated that is a cogent point the Delegation could rally behind; and he supports looking at the proposal to look at actuarials, as the bigger the pool, the better the system, not to mention the accounting savings they could get on bond issues.

Revising Monthly E-911 Fee

E-911 Coordinator Steve O’Conor thanked the Legislature for having the foresight to enact the 911 legislation in 1985; stated the 50 cents that was allocated in 1985 is not worth a lot today; and he is seeking support from the Delegation to raise the local option fee from 50 cents to $1.00 and wireless fee from 50 cents to $1.00. He stated they found that the wire line income is significantly being reduced, which makes it unable for them to pay for expenses in the 911 Act; and the reason for the reduction is basically residents disconnecting their lines and providing their children with wireless phones, going from second telephone lines for computers to DSL and cable, and the migration to wireless phones. He stated the County only retains 22 cents from the 50 cents that is provided by the wireless fee; so as the migration continues, they are losing dollars; and with the advent of voice override fee, which is unregulated, they are not paying any fees at all. He stated they are looking at a bleak future; and by the same token, they are improving the level of service mandated by FCC. Mr. O’Conor stated wireless carriers have to provide phase 2 location technology by the end of 2005, which means 911 call centers will be able to locate a wireless caller by latitude and longitude; and in order to provide the call takers with the ability to do that, they had to significantly increase their expenditures. He stated as a result of increased expenditures and decreased revenues, they have a serious problem; and it is not only in Brevard County, but Statewide. He stated they approached the Florida State Association of Chiefs of Police that endorsed the proposal to increase the wire line and wireless fees; there is significant Statewide support for the proposal; County coordinators and the National Emergency Number Association has also endorsed it; and requested the Delegation’s assistance.

Representative Altman advised he was there when the Board approved the 50-cent surcharge that was a good measure for the 800 megahertz system; he remembers how the system went down and literally police officers could not communicate; and 911 has highlighted serious problems with the 800 megahertz system. He stated his understanding is they are looking at going to an upgraded technology, a band width over and above the 800; and inquired if that is true. Mr. O’Conor responded he believes Representative Altman is referring to the $12.50 surcharge, which is different because they do not deal with radios; the 911 fees strictly go to dispatching; and beyond that, the response by police, fire, and emergency services are ad valorem expenses. Representative Altman stated his understanding is when the County did the surcharge, part of that money went to the 800 megahertz radio system; with Mr. O’Conor responding the Florida Statutes clearly stated they cannot spend money on radios. Representative Altman stated maybe there was some shifting; with Information Systems Director Gino Butto responding the $12.50 surcharge was for the 800 megahertz radio system.

Senator Haridopolos advised it is a bill he worked on; they looked at wireless fees and taxes; and when they added all up, the State has about 6% of the nation’s population but under its current tax structure is paying 17% of the national taxes and fees on cell phones. He stated the appetite to raise a fee on something that is already overtaxed would be limited opportunity; his phone bill is a little less than 25% in taxes; and maybe he is speaking out of school, but will let the House members put their two cents in on a fee that the State is looking at 17% as a whole because it is no longer a luxury item and he does not know how much of an appetite the public has for a tax increase on something like that, especially given the nature of the House and how the members look at things. He stated when he went through the numbers last year and saw that they were paying 17% of the taxes and fees and is 6% of the population in the nation, obviously the current tax structure is overly burdensome and maybe it is something that needs to be adjusted for the 911 service, but it is something that is very much a concern of his. He stated the County asked about the practicality of some of the measures; it may have a lot of support because they need the revenue to take care of the 911 service; but to put it on the back of this item would be difficult given the current regulatory scheme they have for wireless and land line services.

Representative Allen advised this year he has been assigned to the Utilities and Telecommunications Committee and knew this would come before them; Representative Brummer is the Chairman and does not grab hold of those eagerly; so he is giving a pragmatic lay of the land that they are facing there. He stated people have mailed him their phone bills showing their basic service and how their fees and taxes doubled their service fee; and they want to know if they do not make very many long distance calls and their fee can be so low, how can the tax be double the price. He noted that is the sensitivity; so they need to find another way.

Reform Florida Statutes to Authorize FFWCC to Remove Derelict Vessels

Solid Waste Management Director Euri Rodriguez advised he is seeking to streamline the process of removing derelict vessels from the waters of the State; the way the process is right now, Fish and Wildlife Commission tells the County when a vessel is derelict, compiles a list, gives it to the County, and the County in turn gives the State the list along with the estimated costs, apply for a grant, receive the money, go through the procurement process, pull the vessels out, and take them to the landfill. Mr. Rodriguez stated there are no tipping fees when they take them to the landfill; there is not a penny the County keeps for the process; and he believes they should take the County out as the middleman and leave the program with the FWCC, since it determines what vessels are derelict. He stated they can turn over the grant money to the FWCC and let it take care of the problem; it could take one year out of the process of taking vessels out of the water; one year saved in the process is money they can save; and requested the Delegation’s support of the proposal.

Representative Needelman advised he appreciates where the County is coming from after spending 30 years out there, but there is a cost related to it and they need to look outside the box at opportunities that might arise at the local level to use grants in a more efficient and effective way. He stated last year there was no money available to do the program; they were forced to look at that because of the hurricane problems they had; the major shift of the responsibility is FWCC where one time they had a Florida Marine Patrol Division under Department of Environmental Protection; and now it is under FWCC and they are working hard to get them to become more marine-oriented than what they have had. He stated the Director, Mr. Haddad, has moved quite a ways back to the levels they were prior to 1999; but the bottom line is they are not at the level of service on the water where they were before the merger took place. He stated there are two pieces of legislation that are being looked at right now; he is looking at the legislation on marinas and how to deal with boats during the storms; and he believes the chairman is also looking at derelict vessels. Representative Needelman stated what they may look at is speeding up the process by actually using part of Florida Statutes 327 to deal with derelict vessels on the property or that have not paid their rent and at least get them removed and put on dry land, then go through the process of locating the owners through civil or criminal processes to do that. He stated instead of looking at a shift, maybe they can look at better utilizing the grant through marine units in Brevard County and actually get the vessels out of the water faster to get rid of the hazard; and it would be more efficient and effective in achieving that if they could look at a way to use the grant and streamline the process by copying Florida Statutes 327. He stated the chairman has a bill he is looking at; they requested information from the County office for the makeup of the bill; he does not think it has a number yet, but it is out of bill drafting and deals with hurricane storm protection for marinas; but there is a component that deals with derelict vessels too. He inquired if the County is open-minded to look beyond passing it on to another agency; with Mr. Rodriguez responding they just want the process streamlined. Representative Needelman stated then they are on the same path.

Representative Poppell stated they are looking into some of it now and think the process does take too long; however, they do have to proceed with some caution otherwise they would be removing vessels that maybe should not have been removed. He stated there is a fine line, but they are looking into that right now and hopefully can come up with something that is going to help the counties out because the process is too long and cumbersome the way it is.

Oppose Legislation to Shift Medicaid Costs to Counties

Housing and Human Services Director Gay Williams advised presently there is no legislation being proposed to shift costs of Medicaid to the counties; but they are aware of the Governor’s proposal that seeks to reform Medicaid; and had an opportunity from Florida Association of Counties that first glance of that reveals at this time no cost shift to counties. She stated they had a long run with people being able to access more choices and having accessibility to health care at the front end; it might reduce the cost of long stays in hospitals; so they see the Legislative Delegation’s support of any type of reform that would lessen the impact on county contributions and in the long term provide local flexibility and decision-making for County Medicaid share of the cost.

Commissioner Colon stated this deals with children and families; they are changing the way they do business in regard to children and family services where they are going to send centralized services to Cocoa; and they told the community there are going to be storefronts, which sounded positive. She stated storefronts have not been identified; they are looking at a target date of March, which leaves folks in Melbourne and Palm Bay without a storefront; and that scares her because everyone plans well at the top but once implemented, elderly folks, those who seek child support, those from nursing homes, etc. have no way to get that far. She stated it is easy for neighbors to take them to Melbourne, but they have to take them to Cocoa; and that is where the challenge is. She stated she would not be so worried if the storefront had already been identified so folks knew they had to go there; and encouraged the Delegation to help her with this issue. She stated they are folks who are trying to make ends meet; a lot of them are below the poverty level and senior citizens who only have social security to live on; and they are the people who do not have a voice. She stated she knows the Delegation is sensitive to this issue; and she wants them to watch it on their end and keep the County abreast of what they know, where the storefronts are going, etc. and not let it go straight to Cocoa and leave nothing in South Brevard. She stated she is concerned because it would affect those who do not have a voice and cannot be at meetings; so she is requesting the Delegation to help her with that situation.

Representative Needelman stated DCF is the most dominating issue; he rearranged his staff and has someone whose only duties are to look at DCF issues because there are so many issues within that agency; he has set up a conference call with the administration out of District 7 for next week; and maybe they can bring someone over from Commissioner Colon’s office and have that input. He stated one problem they always had is the difficulty of getting District 7 to understand the needs of Brevard County and to understand that the issues here are just as important as the issues in other counties it serves; because its headquarters is not in Brevard County, it has a hard time hearing what they have to say; so this is an opportunity, and he hopes they get positive feedback out of it. He stated one thing they tried to do last year was look at the administration concept and not the storefront concept by putting substations out; Brevard County would have had one, and he would have gone with that; he thought that would have been the magic key for their constituents here; but the cost factor was prohibitive because they top loaded the administration side. He requested Commissioner Colon get with Marietta regarding the conference call next week; and stated they are all aware of the issues and changes in DCF’s policies.

Representative Poppell stated they are listening and trying to work with DCF; at the same time the taxpayers who foot the bills also have a voice; Medicaid started in 1981 or 1982 with roughly $800 million; today it is $15 billion; and that is in a period of 22 years. He stated going from zero to $15 billion in 22 years, nobody can say they are not spending enough dollars on it; and back to what the Board said earlier, sometimes it is reevaluating where the dollars are going and how to best place them. He stated the total health care package being proposed this year is one-third of the $61 billion budget; so they are looking at over $22 billion total for health care being proposed this year. He stated in 1971 with less than $4 billion to today at $61 billion, that is a huge increase; the population more than doubled and there are a lot of things they have to look at in Tallahassee while listening to the Board and looking at the needs; and they have to reevaluate a lot of programs to see how they will work best.

Commissioner Colon stated she is definitely not trying to put her hands around that particular issue; but she is focusing on the fact that they have South Brevard, where most of the growth is, and have seniors who have no way to get to Cocoa. She stated a lot of the folks do not make the kind of money she makes; they have social security so they depend on government; and she has absolutely no tolerance for people who try to live off the government because her mother had three jobs and did not depend on government. She stated she has absolutely no patience for that; but she knows she is working with a Delegation that is sensitive to those who definitely have no control over their situations. She stated there needs to be a balance for seniors and wives with husbands who do not work and are struggling; the Act has changed a lot over the years; she believes in getting people to the point of being self-sufficient; but when they turn around and have a different approach on how folks are going to go and a new concept, they need to make sure when they change things that what they are saying they are going to do happens right away. She stated they can say administration is going to Cocoa and storefronts are for people to fill out applications; and there is so much bureaucracy in government that she needs the Delegation to help her to make sure that storefront is there so the folks can go there. She stated the rest of the issue is huge; and she does not expect the Delegation to put their hands around that, but at least be able to get that storefront going.

Representative Poppell stated they are sensitive to the needs; Commissioner Scarborough and he represent areas that fall in the same category Commissioner Colon talked about; but they do have people in place administering the programs that they can listen to and work with to make it come about rather than going in and telling them how to do it; so the Delegation needs to do that. He stated there is a lot going on; it is a big picture; it is hard to get arms around every detail of the needs that are out there; and it is almost impossible because the needs are so varied, but they are working on it. He stated it is not perfect, but they will work on that. He noted he sits on one of the Health Rate Committees.

Representative Allen stated when DCF announced it was closing the Titusville and Palm Bay Centers, that makes the unique Brevard County drive even worse; there is a zeal in Tallahassee amongst the Executive Branch to embrace technology as a solution to many things, cost savings and the like, and to try and bring it along; however, he finds it difficult for families seeking subsistence for food stamps and some of the seniors and other needs, to expect them to go on line and do all their applications and adjust their cases. He stated it is a little optimistic; they do not have modems and high speed internet; some are not articulate in using computers, so the centers and offices with the human touch are important for this human service. Representative Allen stated he is happy Representative Needelman is putting together a conference call on that; and his first reaction was while technology is great, it does not make sense to ask some of those people to become internet savvy or use a partnership organization like the libraries to get on the internet and make their applications then go home and enjoy the food stamps. He stated that is not the way it is going to work; and they need to figure out a way to fix that.

Chairman Pritchard stated they need satellite offices with staff and computers to show people how to do it or do it for them. He stated he was at the doctor’s office yesterday; some of the elderly patients were having difficulty filling out the forms, but they had assistance there; some had caregivers who filled out the forms; so doing it by computer is not going to work.

Develop Legislation Addressing Safe Patient to Nurse Ratios in Hospitals and Nursing Homes

Sharnel Smith was not present to address the issue.

Legislative Position for FY 2005-06 on Public Guardianship

Housing and Human Services Director Gay Williams advised this is a request to the Delegation to support amending Florida Statutes 318.18(13)(a) to allow the ability of the Board to provide a resource to support the public guardianship program locally. She stated with the implementation of Article V, they are not able to garner the court fees that the Board approved; they were receiving $80,000 annually that would support the Guardianship Program; and they are now seeking to amend that to support the need locally.

Representative Needelman stated they had a good presentation at the committee meeting last week; there seemed to be quite a bit of support among the members of that committee that will be looking into that issue; so the Board might see some flexibility in that.

Creation of Local Senior Services Council

Housing and Human Services Director Gay Williams advised they are requesting support for legislation that will allow the ability to create a local senior services council; and it would ask for special appropriation to authorize a local avenue to provide funding for elderly services. She stated the bill was approved by the Senate but not by the House in the 2004-05 session; and they hope to find support to allow for local creation of a senior citizens council.

Representative Poppell inquired if anything has been filed yet; with Legislative Coordinator Theda Roberts responding Senate Bill 62 and House Bill 229 were filed.

Request for Legislation to Require Annexing Cities to Assume Maintenance Responsibility for Certain Roads Abutting Annexed Areas

Transportation Engineering Director John Denninghoff advised as cities annex areas that have roadways in them, particularly roads which are not important to the overall community, local roads usually residential in character, the tax base which is utilized to maintain those roads, striping, signs, ditches, pavement, etc. gets shifted to the cities; and what the County is looking for is a mechanism that does not exist to level the playing field after annexation. He stated about 80% of the Traffic Engineering budget relies on property taxes; about 25 to 30% of the Roadways and Landscaping budget relies on MSTU’s, which are only levied in the unincorporated areas; so as roads shift into a city environment, there is no revenue to use to maintain the roads in the current structure. Mr. Denninghoff stated not all roads become a problem; frequently the cities will take the roads, but they also resist it for whatever reason; under Florida Statutes they can basically just resist it; so the County is looking for an opportunity to protect the unincorporated area citizens from having to support the road systems relied on by citizens in municipalities.

Representative Altman stated they will probably hear enclave legislation; the City of Melbourne made a presentation at the last Delegation meeting; and those are excellent points and things they need to put on the table when they are negotiating the enclave legislation between cities and counties. He stated the City of Melbourne wants to annex small enclaves along Aurora Road; and inquired if Aurora Road is a County road; with Mr. Denninghoff responding portions of it are. Representative Altman stated that is a real live example. Interim County Manager Peggy Busacca advised the City of Melbourne has been very cooperative in dealing with the County; they all agree annexations will help both entities; so that is not a good example of where they are having a disconnect between the County and the cities. Mr. Denninghoff stated they are not talking about major roads that are important to the community as a whole and that connect cities to cities and County to cities; and it is about the local roads wholly within the city or primarily serving only the city.

Commissioner Scarborough stated it is a twofold problem; there can be federal highways through cities, State roads and County roads through cities; but there is a subtlety. He stated there is another problem, and he does not know how to handle it; for example, if there is annexation of property around a County road where development is occurring, they have impact fees not for maintaining but expanding the capacity of the road; so there also needs to be some dialogue or maybe JPA’s that say if the County continues to maintain the road, the expansion would be paid by the impact fees of those persons who are impacting the road as opposed to some other tax base because that is the reason for impact fees. He stated it is probably something the Board has to deal with at the local level, but it is a twofold problem, one that Mr. Denninghoff addressed, and two moving from a two-lane to a four-lane road and how to handle that impact with impact fees going to a different entity. Mr. Denninghoff noted that is a significant problem.

Commissioner Carlson inquired if staff has any idea what the impact is that the County feels right now based on accumulation of those annexations where the cities do not take the roads; with Mr. Denninghoff responding he does not have a number for that, but could produce it; and with the City of Melbourne, they have a JPA and do not have an issue with the City. He stated that has significantly helped reduce those numbers as far as the impact on the County; but the handwriting is on the wall as they see an incredible number of annexations taking place. He stated it is devastating to the ability to collect revenue to fund improvements that are needed; so they are not maintaining roads like they should and are not extravagant in funding for maintenance. Commissioner Carlson stated if staff could provide those numbers to the Delegation, it will help them argue the case. Ms. Busacca stated staff has that information and will gather it up and get it to them.

Commissioner Colon stated there is a small window of opportunity for the kind of planning they want to do from Barefoot Bay all the way to Grant; in the last six months developers have been coming out of the woodwork in that area; and it scares her because in the last week she had two attorneys come to her office and one alone talked about 5,000 units, which made her sick to her stomach. She stated it was almost like let’s make a deal; and one of the things that was very frustrating that they were sharing with her was that municipalities will give them what they want. She stated at one point they were talking about Aurora Road and enclaves, but not any more; they are talking about huge impacts and are causing that kind of growth; and it is not a County problem. She stated they used to think about small roads, but now they think about the ones they are going to be impacting with that kind of growth. Mr. Denninghoff stated the magnitude of 5,000 single-family units is about 50,000 vehicles per day on the street that were not there before; they are not going to spend all their time on local roads; they are going to spend their time on major roadways as well; and leveling the playing fields is the only way to build in a sense of responsibility and accountability associated with all of that. He stated issues associated with growth are extremely complex; and the County does not control that as much as it would like to.

Provide Beach Restoration Matching Funds

Ms. Busacca advised Brevard County is continuing to seek legislative support for the $30 million Trust Fund dedicated to the Department of Environmental Protection Beach Management Funding Program. She stated the County anticipated, as a result of the ranking of its projects, that the distribution of the State funds to Brevard County would be $170,000 for shore protection projects; this year the hurricanes have made beach issues forefront in Brevard County and many coastal communities; and they appreciate the Legislature giving them additional funding in the Special Session; but unfortunately at this point the cost of sand has gone up significantly because everyone wants it at the same time. She stated they have seen the price of putting sand on the beach continue to increase; and any funding the state can provide to Brevard County would be very much appreciated.

Chairman Pritchard stated this may be the opportunity to talk about the Mid Reach and what they initiated on Friday.

Representative Allen stated at the close of the Friday deadline, they were concerned with the extra funds the Governor was looking to put out for beach renourishment and at least having something on the table as a marker so they combined their efforts with the County for a request to get it in and looking at specific earmarked money toward that area. Representative Allen stated he appreciates County staff acting so quickly; the first reaction was with all the permitting issues, worm rock, and the like, they were not there yet to put in an application; but they decided correctly to go parallel with each other, continue the application process forward at the same aggressive pace and try to go for some money so that they are not getting an application completed then looking for money after the front burner issue is not there. He advised the Governor putting $72 million in for beach renourishment is a good thing; they want to be up to par with that so they can at least get a piece of it; and the federal officials want to go to bat for them; but they can only go to bat if they fight the old lottery saying they cannot win if they do not play, so they want to be in the game. He stated if it was a best case perfect world, they could get whatever they can chip away at; and with that they could have the Delegation work with the County to expedite the permitting issues where emergency issues can be done. He stated the North and South Reaches are already coming under renourishment because they were approved before; the Commissioner mentioned four homes fell in at the Mid Reach and other areas are threatened; and dune restoration without beach renourishment is fighting water; so they want to try and do both if they can and that is why he appreciates the support they are getting on it. He stated the Delegation members said they want to get behind it; and whatever they can do for Brevard’s long beach line they will do.

Chairman Pritchard stated there was a large delegation of property owners, Save Our Seashore, etc., and the audience was packed with standing room only; they realized that the Board needed to do something; and they literally begged the Board to do something. He stated for the Board to take a position that it is going to study it for three years is not right; it does not need to study it, it needs to take action; and this falls in line with taking action to have $9.8 million for beach renourishment. He stated it is a message that the County is taking action; and thanked Senator Haridopolos and Representative Allen for bringing it to their attention. He stated it was the 11th hour issue that they had to deal with; County staff dealt with it; and they were able to come up with the dollars, plugged it in, and made the deadline. Representative Allen commented that was just the forum, and now the work begins.

Funding for New Central Brevard Health Department Facility, Phase II

Assistant County Manager Don Lusk stated the project is an example of a great partnership; the Delegation last session worked hard on it and gave $1.5 million to start the project; the County gave the land that it had set aside; and Dr. Heshmati, as frugal as he is, had money put with it. He stated in the next 12 months, to the east, as people drive out near the reflective pond, they will see the clinic portion of the project go forward; however, additional dollars are needed. He stated Dr. Heshmati will try to continue his frugality and put money with it; they have additional land set aside to build Phases II and III; Phase II is to bring in the children’s medical service center, which is in Rockledge, and co-locate it, as well as the administrative and field staffs that are spread out all over Central Brevard; so the Delegation’s assistance in bringing additional dollars for the project will be greatly appreciated.

Chairman Pritchard inquired if the facility the Health Department moved from is a County facility; with Mr. Lusk responding yes. Chairman Pritchard inquired if it could be leased to private enterprise to derive revenue; with Ms. Busacca responding that is an option; however, the hurricanes convinced staff that the EOC bunker is undersized for those who were there; staff was sleeping on the floor; and they had hoped to use that building as an annex to the EOC. She noted it would not go unused; but the Board can choose other options.

Short-term Residential Treatment Facility Funding

James Whitaker with Circles of Care advised Representative Needelman filed a request on this item; it was a high priority of the Community Mental Health Study Group; it has been going on for a number of years; and it allows Circles of Care to take people from the jail who do not need to be there because they cannot get treated appropriately. He stated the jail was not set up to be a mental health unit; McClenney is going to be closed; it is just a matter of which year they will pick to close it; and right now if the judge says someone needs to go to McClenney, it takes from three to five months to move that someone; therefore, he keeps them in his units and does not have a crisis bed available. He stated people are backing up in emergency rooms; backers of the program are administrators of hospitals in Brevard County; last two years they back up each weekend 30 to 40 people in the emergency rooms, which they try to keep for one to four days until he has a bed free; and adding 16 beds for short-term residential treatment, which would be a secure unit in addition to the hospitals, will allow them to add beds to get them out of the jails and off the streets. Mr. Whitaker stated it also feeds into what the Legislature passed a couple of years ago, which is the mandated outpatient treatment; they need a place to go so they can take their medication; medication works for those people, but many do not take it; so they need a facility where they can be secure, not on the streets and not backing up emergency rooms. He stated it is $1.4 million for 16 beds; that is $241 a day for everything, including food, medication, treatment, and outpatient follow-up; Circles of Care has the facilities and would renovate it so that all the dollars go into treatment; and all the people who would be in the unit would be 100% indigent. He stated there is no fee they can raise; the County is paying for it with all the consternation going on at the jail with mental health; and it is clear that it is the wrong place to have those people. He stated Senator Posey and Representative Needelman worked on this for a couple of years; it got close last year; it passed in the House and pretty well in the Senate; and the Governor has requested $6 to $7 million for Baker Act alone this next year so they are beginning to work on the problem. He stated they will be the first new beds they will have in Brevard County since 1980 to deal with mental illness; that is not true in some other areas; but here they started with 28 beds and for Baker Act they still have 28 beds and the population has doubled and almost tripled in that same period of time. He stated they have been putting people in other beds and increasing beds for private people; he usually has 40 people there and is trying to catch up and provide better services; so that is where they are. He thanked the Board and the Delegation for their past support; and noted they are careful what they pay for but care about people and he thanks them for that.

Chairman Pritchard advised Mr. Whitaker the Board will have a workshop on the jail next week; with Mr. Whitaker responding his staff will be there but his wife is having surgery so he will not be available. Chairman Pritchard stated they are talking about a campus in the jail that will have a facility to house people who not only require incarceration but medical attention also. Mr. Whitaker stated it would get them out of the general population; but if some require more intensive care right now, he does not have a place to put them. Mr. Whitaker stated this item would give the jail some flexibility to get them out of the 15-minute watch; the serious ones are highly suicidal; and unless they are violent, Circles of Care will work with the County on that. Chairman Pritchard stated the $1.4 million might offset what they are doing at the jail; and what they are doing at the jail might be offset by what Circles of Care is doing to enhance its program. Mr. Whitaker stated a lot of people he sees are not from the jail and ordered by the courts, so it is a little of everything.

Funding Options for Child Care Association of Brevard County, Inc. Programs

Child Care Association Director Barbara Moore had a board meeting and was not able to attend the workshop.

Funding for Brevard County Arts and Cultural Development Needs

Kay Burk with Cultural Alliance thanked the Delegation for its past support and indication of its support at the first workshop. She stated they worked with her; and she cannot thank Theda Roberts enough for her help and the Delegation staff members who worked with her. She stated it is her understanding that the Governor has made his appropriations requests for arts and culture and proposed an increase in his budget, which they are delighted to hear. She stated it will make things easier, as some of the ties to the budget requests for arts and cultural funding go through the granting process, which are granted through the Department of State. Ms. Burk stated she does not know for sure, but it is her understanding there have been meetings of the Cultural Alliance Statewide Groups with the House and Senate leadership and those were positive meetings; and noted if the Delegation had any information for her, she would be delighted to hear it.

The meeting recessed at 4:40 p.m., and reconvened at 4:50 p.m.

Property Taxes

Commissioner Colon stated the Board has been talking about property taxes, not for the folks who are here, but for her bosses to get a grasp of exactly what happens and how it goes up; and inquired if Mr. Whitten can touch on it.

Assistant County Manager Stockton Whitten advised there are two factors that contribute to someone’s tax bill; there is property value controlled by the Property Appraiser, and there are millage rates controlled by the Board; and using the property value as the base and millage rate as the multiplier, if the multiplier remains the same or decrease in any one particular year and the property value increases, homeowners will experience an increase in their tax bills. He stated staff received a lot of calls this past budget because the Board lowered taxes and a number of folks received increases in their tax bills; but there are other taxing authorities in the County that contribute to it. Mr. Whitten stated the requirement for the Property Appraiser’s Save Our Homes legislation is to max out increases annually by the percentage the property value can increase; the basic tenet of Save Our Homes is that there is a market value; and if the taxable value of a home does not match that market value, the law says the Property Appraiser is limited in the annual increase of the property value of a home from year-to-year and has to raise the property value to get closer to the market value.

Commissioner Colon stated a home worth $200,000 last year went up to $250,000; and the Board kept the tax at the same millage rate or below, but it does not have control over the Property Appraiser and he does not either because he has to follow the law. She stated that equation gets complex and citizens blame elected officials; and that question gets asked so many times.

Representative Altman stated he mentioned the high property tax, but wants to make it clear that those high property taxes are not the problem of local government; they are not created by the Property Appraiser; and the reason the property tax is out of whack is the way the State has structured it. He stated the State has outmoded, outdated, and obsolete tax laws; and they need to change that. He stated Representative Poppell mentioned constitutional amendments create havoc, and they have to look at that issue; there may be a bill on homestead affordability that offers a lot of tax relief; and if people live in Brevard County and want to downsize or upsize their homes, even if they move to smaller homes, they may be assessed higher than their current homes because they may have to be reassessed to the full market values. He stated there is talk of affordability, where one can take the sale value of his or her existing home and apply that to the value he or she buys homestead; and he thinks it is a wonderful idea and provides relief, because those who are not protected under Save Our Homes legislation get hammered. Mr. Whitten stated there is good information on Save Our Homes legislation on the Property Appraiser’s website; and the address is www.brevardpropertyappraiser.com.

Commissioner Scarborough stated even though the revenue of the County is going up, the actual taxes individuals pay are not increasing; and there was something interesting in the Kipling of Washington letter that he shared with the Board. He stated it talks about the amount of local and state taxes people pay; it took all the taxes together, and Florida was #2; and people are amazed at what they get for the amount of taxes they pay in comparison to places like New Jersey or Connecticut. He stated in some places people are paying three to four times as much in state and local taxes; so while the Board wants to be good fiduciaries and not let it get away, by the same token, comparatively speaking, a person gets a lot in Florida for the amount of taxes he or she pays, at least according to studies like the Kipling letter.

Representative Altman stated beachfront communities pay higher taxes, and others are lower because of Save Our Homes legislation. Commissioner Scarborough stated it is only the new purchases who pay higher taxes; and those who are on the lagoon or on the ocean have limitations of 3% or the CPI, whichever is less.

Chairman Pritchard stated Representative Altman’s proposal is very good because a lot of people say now their house is worth $300,000 so they will sell it; if they sell it and buy a $300,000 house, and their house was appraised at $180,000, their taxes will go from $2,000 to $4,500; and if they cannot afford $4,500, they end up staying in their current house. He stated if they could drag some of that along as a savings, then it would provide someone an opportunity even if they want to downsize, because the average condominium is going for $250,000 or higher. He stated the market now is in the $600,000 to $700,000 range, and some are a million dollars or more; and it makes it difficult to downsize when a person is faced in an increase in tax that is so substantial they cannot afford to make the move.

Funding for Expansion of the Veterans Memorial Center

Parks and Recreation Director Charles Nelson advised Brevard County is fortunate to have a great relationship with the Brevard Veterans Council; 15 years ago a center was built on Merritt Island that contains a museum as well as facilities for community use; and they use those facilities to generate revenue to support their museum activities. He stated since then a couple of things have happened; first the Council has been very successful, but that success means it has many artifacts that it cannot display; and as the veteran generation gets up in years, they are coming in great numbers and giving their things to the Council that has no way of displaying them. He stated they have a request before the Delegation for an expansion of the existing center at $1.5 million; the County is involved in the acquisition of adjacent property, which is moving forward and should be finalized shortly; and it will give the land for the expansion. He stated the Council would appreciate the assistance in terms of funding for the expansion to get the artifacts on display and have additional room for community activities, which helps it raise money and operate its facilities.

Representative Allen stated he knows the project well; it is one where a partnership is trying to be formed between the County and State also; the hurricane provided an opportunity that stressed a stress wall and roof and showed them where it needed to be fixed; and they know they have to do some fixing of the facility, but thought they could accommodate what they view as a pressing need and go after the educational component and listing that in the struggle our country is fighting right now in the war on terrorism. He stated it has brought to his front burner what sacrifice is all about, what veterans are all about, how veterans are created, and what they had to go through in their lives; and he learned a lot of lessons from this great generation and what it has out there and what it could do. He stated school children can go out there and see the dedication of those amazing people; so it is worth trying to have a Brevard Veterans Center and make sure the center has a well. He stated one item he wants to mention as they run off to try and get the funding together is to sharpen their pencils on the construction; currently it is a wood-framed facility that needs some fixing; and the prices that were coming in were close to $2 million to do it all or more. Mr. Nelson stated in terms of repairs, it is about $700,000 to $1 million; the problem is they have to tear it open to find out what needs to be done; so it is almost a design/build scenario and a little nerve wracking. Representative Allen stated he is not trying to do a public attack, but what he was trying to say is before he came to this meeting he had a luncheon and a ribbon cutting at a facility that was a tilt wall concrete facility of over 80,000 square feet; it is as secure as it can be with nice glass, two-story capability, and big air-conditioning space; and they built it for $3 million. He stated the Veterans Center is a wood-framed building; to add another 5,000 square feet would cost about $2 million; and he would say bulldoze the thing and do what those people did, built a $3 million building, but downsize it to 40,000 square feet and he would be happy as a clam. He stated it seems to him there is another way when it comes time for construction; it may become a money pit when they tear a wall open; and later they may realize they could have built a new facility for less.

Mr. Nelson stated that is a point well taken because they ran into the same scenario with some of the recreation projects, literally starting all over with the South Brevard Senior Center because when they ran the numbers, it was cheaper to start over than to do renovations; and he believes that is part of the mix. He stated there are new construction techniques that they would like to look at as well and think there could be some cost savings because construction costs have gone through the roof.

Representative Allen stated the 80,000 square-foot building was for a private enterprise obeying all the rules and regulations; they had to dig swales, build retention ponds, and do all that stuff; and it was amazing what they came in under. He stated he knows that businessperson is not a spendthrift; and for him to spend that much and get what he got tells him that maybe there is a way they can do it too.

Commissioner Carlson inquired if that could come under the qualification for local mitigation dollars. She stated they are getting $11 million through local mitigation grant dollars; and if they could categorize it as a mitigation type project, they could leverage other dollars with it. Mr. Nelson stated he could pursue it, but he is not overly optimistic because FEMA has not been particularly receptive to those kinds of things. He stated they will ask that question, but he does not believe, based on what he has been told so far, that it would qualify. Commissioner Carlson stated it has to qualify through the Local Mitigation Strategy Committee, then it goes through the process if the Committee says it is a worthwhile project. Ms. Busacca stated the County’s mitigation strategy has been finalized; and Brevard County was the first county in the State to submit it; so she is not sure there is an opportunity anymore, but they can look into it. Commissioner Carlson stated she knows they are pursuing additional dollars in that category, so it would be interesting to tag along with that if there is the possibility. Mr. Nelson noted they will address that.

Representative Allen stated on the Severs request, one of the magic components is FEMA; it is a hurricane damaged building, but it does not have a FEMA number yet; and if they could assign a FEMA number, even as bizarre as that can be sometimes, what that means is it will help the formal process put it in another pool of money and have it at the State level with what they are doing for hurricane issues. He stated that is another option to make available; and he would like to explore giving it some designation that would allow the State to look at as many resource accounts as possible to try to pool together. Mr. Nelson stated they have a FEMA number on some of the shore issues associated with the site, and they may be able to amend that to incorporate the project. Representative Allen stated all they need is the number to show that they categorized it as such and that will give them more flexibility.

Provide Permanent State Funding for Veterans Transitional Facility

Glenn McGuffie, Brevard County Veterans Services Manager, commended the Delegation for getting them $170,000 last year to fund the veterans transitional facility; and stated the facility houses homeless veterans and their families and provides a complete program whereby they can return from their homeless status to be fully-productive members of society. He stated they enjoy a 62% overall success rate; 50% of the people housed in the facility come from counties other than Brevard County; and the Veterans Association throughout the State refers people to them due to the great reputation of its program. He stated it was approved last year as a special project at $170,000, with the word “recurring” on it; he was not able to weed his way through the government’s budget in Tallahassee to find out if it is there again; it is rated A on the Governor’s grading list, which is the highest grade possible and meets all the criteria; so hopefully the Legislature passes the DCS budget where it found a home for the funding. He stated they would appreciate the support the Delegation can give them to ensure the funding for the transitional facility.

Increase Statewide Guardianship Capacity

Housing and Human Services Director Gay Williams advised this is another opportunity that will provide funding to support public guardianship services that would be available Statewide; and she does not know if it is already in the proposed budget, but it would be a request, if opportunity presents itself, to allocate additional funding for a Statewide guardianship services program to be expanded.

Community Service Funding for Elderly Services

Housing and Human Services Director Gay Williams advised they are asking to continue the current level of funding that has been previously allocated; and if there are additional dollars to expand in-home and community services, they would appreciate it. She stated in-home and community services are cost-effective alternatives to nursing home care; and any increase can be offset and show a savings to the State in reduction of Medicare institutionalized care cost as well as a savings to the County.

Funding for Community Based Care Needs of the Child Welfare System

J. B. Kenna, Director of Community Relations for Community Based Care, thanked the Board and the Delegation for their support and for realizing the importance of community based care in Brevard County. He stated while the State has not executed the Contract with them, but they believe, with the Delegation’s help both in front of and behind the scenes, which it provided to them to close the gap in funding that was needed to adequately protect Brevard’s children, it would be done. He stated he is not asking for anything today, but wants to thank the Delegation for its help and commitment to child welfare in Brevard County, as they rely on the Delegation to continue that support in the future.

Florida Forever Act Funding and Excise Documentary Tax for Environmental
Trust Funds

Parks and Recreation Director Charles Nelson stated he is also here to thank the Delegation because Florida Forever Act has been a great program for Brevard County. He stated over the past ten years they have actually doubled the money available for acquisition of endangered lands in Brevard County; the State contributed little over $30 million to match the County’s $30 million; and they would like to encourage that the program continues. He stated they know that in Tallahassee during session it can get crazy; and encouraged the State to continue to fund the program as it is a great program. He stated Brevard County residents by 70% voted to expend another $60 million for acquisition of endangered lands; and with the Delegation’s help, they could see those dollars double again, which would be great for the County, so they appreciate what the Delegation has done and look forward to its continuing efforts.

Support State Reimbursement to Counties for Housing State Prisoners in
County Jails

Criminal Justice Services Director Shaunna Heffernan stated historically counties had to absorb the costs associated with housing State or Department of Corrections’ inmates in County jail facilities; there have been few attempts in the past to try and get those costs back from the State; but they have been unsuccessful. She stated the County Attorney’s office advised them there is no provision in the current Statutes to allow the County to be reimbursed; last year the Legislature ordered the Department of Corrections and Hillsborough County to do a joint report for the State to see exactly what the costs are associated with Hillsborough County’s facilities; and they understand that report will be finalized in February or March of this year.

Representative Allen inquired if they are prisoners that the Court System ruled are ready for State prison but have not been moved out yet or are they being brought in for temporary housing, as some counties take prisoners that have excess capacity. Ms. Heffernan stated no, they do not have the room for those types of inmates, but they are looking at expanding the jail. She stated those are people who are charged with technical violations and not new charges.

Representative Needelman stated as the workshop began, it was brought up that they will be working with the County on the DJJ issue and the costs involved and shifts incurred with that; and encouraged the County to join with the Association of Counties to make sure that the item is on the table. He stated it is a good negotiable tool in which to draw the demarcation line; so they will need the figures of what the costs are. He stated Hillsborough County is great; he has figures from Broward, Dade, and West Palm Beach Counties; and it would be nice to have the figures from Brevard County to bring that to the table as part of the negotiation.

211 Statewide Funding Initiative

Representative Allen strongly advised the Delegation to get behind the 211 funding initiative; and stated during the hurricanes and before the hurricanes, as Representative Needelman mentioned, with the number of calls they get on DCF issues and all the other issues, it is wonderful to have 211 service that is up, running, informed, healthy, equipped, and knowledgeable. He stated they want to make sure that it is continued because it is literally a lifeline for them to try and find answers and for those who need it when they call. He stated he cannot say more for 211, as it has been a great thing.

Representative Needelman stated Brevard County has some heavyweights on this issue; a senator in St. Lucie County is championing a set aside appropriation; and President Jennings and Brevard County Delegation are co-sponsoring it. He noted if he remembers the numbers, it is about $138,000, so the Board has some heavyweights working for it.

Increase Funding for Students Working Against Tobacco

Laura Corbin advised Dr. Heshmati could not be here and asked her to speak on his behalf and on their behalf; stated the tobacco industry spends over $773 million a year in Florida marketing its product; the State spends $1 million protecting youth; and that is a stark difference, especially when considering that the State is receiving $450 million from the tobacco settlement and another $400 million a year from tobacco taxes for a total of $850 million and spending $1 million on prevention. She stated obviously the $1 million for the last two years has not been sufficient in fighting the $773 million that the industry is spending to market its products. Ms. Corbin stated 81 people a day die from tobacco in Florida; they are replaced by kids because 90% of smokers start before they are 18 years old; so if they do not get them now they have lost them; and she is concerned about the 81 who died and about 1, her dad, who is a smoker. She stated he is a wonderful dad and he will die; she knows she has been the most fortunate daughter in the world having him as her father; and she hates that her daughter will not know her grandpa, as he has emphysema. She stated he spent every minute of his life coming to her track meets and swim meets, but he will not be able to go to her daughter’s events; she is forever indebted to the youths of the program because they work to fight against that; and every day they attend meetings, are on conference calls, go to activities, and spend weekends planning and implementing programs to prevent their peers from succumbing to the big tobacco industry. She requested the Delegation invest in them what they have invested in her daughter and other young people in the State.

Operation I-95 Alive

Chairman Pritchard stated Operation I-95 Alive is a program that Sheriff Parker brought to the Board.

Representative Needelman stated it has been filed.

Representative Allen stated that is a great answer. He stated when he was on his first term, they all worked together to put guardrails up at the hotspots where there were crossovers; and they knew that was not enough, but heard what about enforcement. He noted it is a good program. Representative Poppell commented be careful with enforcement as he runs that road every day; and Representative Altman responded they will continue to pray for him.

Chairman Pritchard stated before Senator Haridopolos left, he asked if it would be possible to prioritize Statewide legislative issues and appropriation requests to make it easier for the Delegation; and he thought that is something they can do as individuals. He stated each Commissioner could give their numerical realignment to the County Manager’s Office to coordinate into one prioritized list. Commissioner Carlson inquired if they will be doing that for the legislative issues and the appropriation issues; with Chairman Pritchard responding yes.

Representative Needelman stated to save the Board some time, there are things already in the hopper, and the deadline has already been met on the appropriation requests. He stated the retired health benefit plan has already been looked at through State Administration; and derelict vessels have two pieces of legislation that Representative Poppell and he are looking at utilizing grant money to remove the vessels, understanding they are not talking about the actual process, and about getting it out of the water to get it out of being a navigational issue; so they are moving in that direction. He stated Item 9 is House Bill 229 and Senate Bill 62; so most of the issues are in the hopper and appropriation requests have been submitted.

Commissioner Carlson inquired if there is hope for Item 10, annexations; with Representative Needelman responding one issue they have been told that is in the House, Senate, and Governor’s issues is growth management; and he is sure that would probably be something that could be or would be addressed. Commissioner Carlson inquired if it would be addressed by the Growth Management Committee; with Representative Needelman responding yes.

Representative Allen stated he chairs the Infrastructure Council; Representative Randy Johnson is the Growth Management Committee Director; and they should communicate that to him as he is taking testimony around the State. Commissioner Carlson stated they talked to Representative Johnson when he was in Orlando. Representative Allen stated staff needs to ensure that request is in his world and it gets processed because that is all they would be doing.

Commissioner Scarborough stated it is a dynamic process; they look to the Delegation with the concerns of the community; they are here to support the Delegation as much as to give it a list; so if there are things that are dynamic, the Board and staff are available to work with the Delegation through Theda Roberts. He stated the most important thing is to create a dynamic relationship because things in Tallahassee are dynamic; it is not put in a list and it is over; and he appreciates each Delegation member and all the hard work they do. He stated it is a sacrifice when they go to Tallahassee; it is probably the worse elected job there is to be away and try to represent the people here; the Commissioners have the convenience of being part of the community and at the same time represent the community; so he appreciates the relationship with each member of the Delegation and thanks them on behalf of the Board.

Commissioner Carlson stated having a legislative coordinator has been a real godsend for the relationship they have; Senator Posey first started pushing that issue and the Board finally thought to do that; and it made a huge difference in the communications. She stated if there is money available for something that might not be on the list, they can go after it and communicate that through Theda Roberts; and that gets communicated to all of them, which is the way communication needs to run. She stated she has seen a big improvement and appreciates that.

Representative Allen stated he was concerned with the first delegation coordinator finding another job and moving on; it is so easy when a job becomes open in governmental institutions to not fill it; but the Board did, and Theda Roberts has a knowledge of the process in Tallahassee so that is very helpful to them. He stated when they needed something in the thick and thin, she has been up there; when it gets tight and dynamic, she is able to do things; and he appreciates the Board providing that service to the Delegation. He stated counties that do that win; lobbyists have to be chosen carefully; and the Board picked one that likes everybody.

Commissioner Colon stated she wants to thank the Representatives who meet before session in her office; Representatives Allen, Needelman and Altman have taken a few hours and sat there listening to all the agencies; and she cannot thank them enough for taking time out to do that. She stated it helps both the County and the Delegation realizing they both do not have an easy job; so she wants to publicly thank them and their staffs for working so closely with her staff. She requested the Delegation allow the County to help it because it is not a one-way street; and she thinks Brevard County has an awesome Delegation.

Chairman Pritchard inquired if he has a sense they do not need to prioritize what is left.

Representative Altman stated this has been a wonderful conversation; the dialogue has been fantastic; they have a great County Commission; and he appreciates what it does on the local level. He stated it has been helpful to have the dialogue between the Delegation and Board and among the Delegation members as well; and he appreciates the opportunity.

Representative Poppell stated he feels like everyone else that it has been a great chance to meet and discuss the issues; he looks at a lot of the issues and some have financial requests attached; but the Board said it has obligations as well, which gives the Delegation a lot of encouragement by trying to do the right thing and make sure there is accountability; and now it is up to the Delegation to do the same thing.

Chairman Pritchard offered his thanks to all for being here today listening to what they had to say, providing answers, most of which he liked; and stated the Board looks forward to working with the Delegation and thanks it for its services.

Upon motion and vote, the meeting adjourned at 5:27 p.m.

ATTEST: ________________________________
RON PRITCHARD, D.P.A., CHAIRMAN
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA
___________________
SCOTT ELLIS, CLERK

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