MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA

January 30, 2001

The Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, met in special/workshop session on January 30, 2001, at 9:00 a.m. in the Government Center Florida Room, Building C, 2725 Judge Fran Jamieson Way, Viera, Florida. Present were: Chairman Sue Carlson, Commissioners Truman Scarborough, Randy O'Brien, Nancy Higgs, and Jackie Colon, County Manager Tom Jenkins, and County Attorney Scott Knox.

Chairman Carlson advised the discussion today will be on the Internal Auditing Function and Quality Growth Best Practices.

REPORT, RE: APPROVAL OF APPLICATION FOR ONE-STOP PERMITTING GRANT

County Manager Tom Jenkins requested the Board approve the grant application to Florida Department of Management Services for a one-stop permitting grant to automate the submission and payment of development permits. He stated it was scheduled for the February 6, 2001 meeting; however, there is a time constraint on it.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, seconded by Commissioner O'Brien, to approve the grant application for the Florida One-stop Permitting grant through Department of Management Services, State Technology Office, to automate the submission and payment of development permits. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

REPORT, RE: TRANSFER OF A. MAX BREWER BRIDGE

Commissioner Scarborough advised in 1985, the State gave the County the A. Max Brewer Bridge; staff and he met with Roy Bridges on transferring the A. Max Brewer Bridge back to the State; cement trucks have been going over the bridge for construction at Kennedy Space Center; and there are other Kennedy Space Center uses. He stated Mr. Bridges will write to the Governor, U. S. Secretary of Transportation, U.S. Senators and Congressmen, and has been in the forefront of this issue.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, seconded by Commissioner Higgs, to authorize staff to pursue the transfer of A. Max Brewer Bridge back to the State, and utilize the services of County Lobbyist Guy Spearman if necessary. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

REPORT, RE: LEGISLATIVE PACKAGE AMENDMENT

Commissioner Higgs advised the Board's Legislative Package contains an item requesting over one million dollars for drug treatment; that has a very low priority and little likelihood of passing; and recommended substituting the request to fund two juvenile intoxication beds in cooperation with Circles of Care, which may have a better chance of getting approval at $145,000 as opposed to over one million dollars.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, seconded by Commissioner Scarborough, to authorize the County Manager to remove the request for over one million dollars for drug treatment from the Legislative Package, and replace it with a request for $145,000 to fund two juvenile intoxication beds in cooperation with Circles of Care. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

REPORT, RE: RESCHEDULING OF TDC WORKSHOP

Chairman Carlson advised a workshop with the Tourist Development Council (TDC) is scheduled on February 27, 2001; it might be prudent to see the outcome of the Cultural Community Plan that is being performed for the Brevard Cultural Alliance, which is due on April 1, 2001, prior to holding that workshop; and recommended the workshop be rescheduled to mid-April, 2001. She stated the TDC agreed that it would better fit into their schedule and give them more time to assess the outcome of the Cultural Community Plan. She noted since the Brevard Zoo is up for discussion and is a cultural amenity, it may be better to look at all the cultural issues instead of just the Zoo.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, seconded by Commissioner Higgs, to reschedule the February 27, 2001 workshop with the TDC to mid-April, 2001.

Chairman Carlson recommended the consultant who is doing the Cultural Community Plan do a 20-minute overview of her findings, and have that lead into the TDC workshop, to get a better perspective of the cultural needs and interests in the community. She stated the consultant is looking at all sectors of the community and approaching the business, education, and social sectors that might have impacts on cultural amenities.

County Manager Tom Jenkins advised the February 27, 2001 workshop had TDC and Courthouse options; and inquired if the Board wants to add another item, such as signs, or just leave it as Courthouse options.

Commissioner Scarborough advised if the signs are scheduled, staff needs to ensure it is coordinated with the Chambers because the last time they had conflicts with people who had a real interest in that issue. Mr. Jenkins stated he would check with them first.

Chairman Carlson advised the TDC workshop was authorized last year, so it may be appropriate for staff to preview all the things the Board instructed staff to put on the agenda for the workshop, as some of those could fall out and be put on a regular agenda.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

REPORT, RE: COURTHOUSE OPTIONS

Commissioner Higgs advised the legislative outlook for the judiciary is as bleak as the rest of the items that are coming up, so getting several judges is not likely. County Manager Tom Jenkins advised Brevard County may get zero to three judges, but it is hard to say. Commissioner Higgs stated what staff thought was imminent is not as immediate.

Chairman Carlson inquired if the Board wants to cancel the courthouse options workshop; with Commissioner Higgs responding no, but it may not be as imminent as staff thought the space needs were. Chairman Carlson stated the Board could devise a plan if it happens.

Mr. Jenkins inquired if the Board has any objections to adding something else to that workshop that staff thinks would be manageable; with Chairman Carlson responding she has no problem with that.

REPORT, RE: DONATIONS FOR COUNTY EMPLOYEE

Chairman Carlson advised an employee of the Parks and Recreation Department, Jackie Horne, lost her home over the weekend; and the Parks and Recreation Department is collecting donations. She stated Ms. Horne has two daughters, ages 13 and 15; and recommended reaching out to help her.

DISCUSSION WITH CLERK, RE: INTERNAL AUDITING FUNCTION

Chairman Carlson requested County Manager Tom Jenkins recap the issues to frame the discussion on the internal auditing function.

County Manager Tom Jenkins advised the Board will discuss two issues: (1) should it contract out internal or performance auditing to a professional auditing firm, or have the Clerk of the Circuit and County Courts continue to have that function with a staff of auditors; and (2) should the Board establish a diverse audit committee to oversee the internal auditing function, or continue to have the Clerk of Courts oversee that function. He stated privatizing this function presents an opportunity to downsize County government; the Board already contracts its annual financial audit to a professional auditing firm; and that has worked well. He stated productivity of the internal auditing staff in the past several years has been a concern based on the level of investment, because the Board has given the Clerk's Office in excess of $480,000 a year, or $1.8 million in four years to audit Board agencies. Mr. Jenkins advised in 1997, the Board received four audits; in 1998, it received six audits; in 1999, it received three audits; and in 2000, they finished off a number of older audits begun in prior years, and turned in 11 audits. He stated the average cost of an audit has ranged from $44,632 in 2000 to $142,110 in 1999; and on an average, the audit reports have been issued 1.5 years after the end of the audit period. He stated for example, the audit for Public Works took four years to finalize. He advised using an independent CPA firm will insure the auditing process is done in a professional manner free of political risks; and auditing firms can bring a larger more skilled level of staffing, which increases backup capabilities, and provides for specialized expertise when it is needed on a case-by-case basis. Mr. Jenkins advised the second issue before the Board is the use of an audit committee, which could consist of five or seven members; having Board representation on the committee would ensure a true check and balance system; and under that scenario, a single individual does not control the process. He stated the Government Finance Officers Association (GFOA), which is an internationally recognized organization committed to the highest ethical standards in financial reporting, recommends the use of an audit committee; and the Brevard County School Board uses an audit committee to oversee its auditing functions. Mr. Jenkins stated the other issue raised by the recently-elected Clerk of Courts Scott Ellis is why the matter was not raised prior to the adoption of the 2000-2001 budget; staff has recommended the Clerk privatize internal auditing in the past based on a lack of productivity; it was only brought to their attention in November, 2000, that the Board has the authority to contract the internal auditing function out to an independent CPA firm as an alternative to the Clerk performing those duties; and accordingly, staff had an obligation and responsibility to bring that alternative to the Board for its consideration. He stated when researching the legality of the alternative, they discovered that the Clerk has a pre-audit watchdog function over the Board's expenditures, and a financial audit is done annually by an independent auditing firm. Mr. Jenkins advised the Board has the option of having the Clerk perform internal auditing or to contract it out to an independent auditing firm; and those legal conclusions are based on the Florida Constitution, Florida Statutes, and Florida case law. He noted he and Assistant County Manager Stockton Whitten will be pleased to provide any other information the Board may need.

Commissioner Carlson advised the information in the packet covering reporting dates, reveals huge gaps in the entry and exit points in the audits; and inquired what is considered a good time frame for an audit to take place, and how much time should elapse once the problems are defined and the report comes to the Board. Mr. Whitten advised there are representatives of accounting firms in the audience who may be able to answer that, as he is not sure if there is a standard for when an audit report should be issued; however, it should be as timely as possible to minimize risks in the future and to have an opportunity to implement solutions that are recommended in the audit. Commissioner Scarborough suggested the representatives of the independent auditing firms identify themselves for the record; and Ed Beck and Jim Wright introduced themselves and advised of the firms they are with.

Commissioner Higgs inquired how long do the firms take to issue their reports after the end of the fiscal year; with Mr. Wright responding they start their preliminary audit function in July and August, but the main part of the work proceeds when the County closes its books and records in October/November; and they generally issue the report before the end of March, so it is a five to six-month process.

Chairman Carlson inquired if two years is too much time to elapse between the start and end of an audit; with Mr. Wright responding yes, unless there are extenuating circumstances, because a timely completion date is needed to be of any value to anyone.

Clerk of the Courts Scott Ellis advised the Board is comparing internal and external audits, which are two different types of audits; with Mr. Wright responding that is correct.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired what would Mr. Wright anticipate to do the internal audits; with Mr. Wright responding it would depend on the size of the audit, dollars involved, complexity of the entity, and whether they are dealing with high risk. Commissioner Scarborough inquired how long would it take; with Mr. Wright responding two to four months at the maximum, unless there are extenuating circumstances. Mr. Ellis inquired how many staff members and hours would it take to do the audit in two to four months. He stated he could put one person on the job or four people on the job, which would have a direct outcome on how long it takes to get it done; so the Board may want to talk about how many billing hours they would estimate to do an audit the size of Road and Bridge. Commissioner Scarborough stated Mr. Ellis could pay one person over two years or four people over six months and have the same wages. Mr. Ellis stated that is why the time is not as important as the hours. Mr. Jenkins stated the time is important because if the audit results are received two years later, they are no longer relevant. Commissioner Higgs stated the Board could also incur additional risks. Mr. Ellis advised the logical solution is to do smaller audits quicker rather than do all of Road and Bridge at one time.

Chairman Carlson inquired if the auditing process is to make sure the operation is working; with Mr. Wright responding yes, they look at policies and procedures and use statistical sampling techniques, but they do not look at every transaction in an organization because it is impossible. Chairman Carlson inquired if the size of the Department matters; with Mr. Wright responding as long as the process is functioning properly, the number of dollars flowing through the department should not matter. Chairman Carlson inquired if Mr. Wright thinks one year and nine months is too long to conduct an audit; with Mr. Wright responding there were extenuating circumstances in some of the internal audits, but as a general rule, it is too long to have any value to anyone. Chairman Carlson stated it is definitely too long when dealing with compliance, liability, misuse, etc.

Mr. Ellis advised the auditing team also works with County staff before the audit is presented to the Board; and generally the Board will see a preliminary audit after they do the initial tasks with staff members. He stated the idea is to have the auditors and staff work out the problems before the final report goes to the Board; and when the final audit report comes to the Board, it will have a few remaining conflicts if there are any. Mr. Jenkins stated staff has ten days to respond to the audit report.

Chairman Carlson stated the Road and Bridge audit began on July 17, 1996; on November 1, 1996, they had an entrance conference; on March 2, 1998, they held a pre-exit conference; and inquired what is a pre-exit conference. Mr. Wright advised it gives the individuals a chance to address the items; and they may have valid comments as to why there is a problem or no problem. Chairman Carlson stated on August 2, 2000, they had the exit conference; and inquired what does that mean; with Mr. Wright responding that is the formal exit conference like his firm holds with Mr. Jenkins and anyone from the Board when it concludes its audit.

Chairman Carlson stated the audit began in July, 1996 and ended in August, 2000; and inquired if there would have been time to fix risk or compliance issues that may have come up duringthat time frame. Mr. Wright stated the way their process works is when they see a problem, they immediately take it to one level above where the problem is so they have an opportunity to address it immediately and to change the process or correct the procedure.

Commissioner Scarborough asked Mr. Beck about the time parameters for an audit; with Ed Beck responding less than six months. Mr. Beck advised the parameters would normally be laid out in the audit plan that goes before the audit committee for review and approval; and they would look at a time frame that is short enough to provide meaningful results on the conclusion of the audit, not only for the department and people involved in the process, but for the Board as well. He stated the parameters after the start of the audit would depend on the operating departments and on the systems, because a lot of times the internal audit function is based on auditing systems in process as opposed to auditing just a department. He gave a scenario of how they audit certain functions of the School Board.

Discussion ensued on the time frame for completion of internal audits.

Chairman Carlson inquired if a performance issue is brought in by a constituent and the School Board wants to do an audit, what would be the standard process, and would it go to an audit committee then to the auditing firm; with Mr. Beck responding the audit committee meets quarterly; if a School Board member or constituent recognizes an issue he/she would like to have addressed by an internal audit function, that would go before the committee; and the firm takes that into consideration in developing the internal audit plan. He stated their responsibility is to assess the risks involved in a particular element, assess the vulnerability, and focus on things that have finance-related potential impact on the operation rather than run after everything that comes up, because a lot of things that come up have very little importance to the operation. He stated it is their responsibility to do a risk assessment, bring it back to the audit committee, and determine whether or not they should incorporate it into the audit plan.

Mr. Ellis inquired if Mr. Beck addresses compliance issues with the School Board; with Mr. Beck responding yes. Mr. Ellis inquired if Mr. Beck is saying they do not do a thorough investigation of a department with the School Board to insure each dollar spent is appropriated properly; with Mr. Beck responding yes, they cannot look at each and every issue, so they focus on those that have financial relationships and impacts to the operation of the government. He stated those issues are discussed with the audit committee and in their audit plan, which the audit committee reviews and approves; so the dollars spent in that area are focused on something the audit committee wants to focus on. Mr. Ellis stated he does not understand the concept of financial impact, as auditors are to verify that when money is designated for a certain purpose, that is the only purpose it can be spent for. Mr. Beck advised an example of financial impact is if the rules say all school buses must be painted yellow and one is painted pink; that may or may not have financial-related impact; the School Board would probably not want to spend dollars to look at what color school buses are; but there may be a law that says all time reported for school bus drivers must be controlled in a certain manner; that has a direct financial impact on the department; so that is what they look at and not the color of school buses, even though it may be a noncompliance issue. Mr. Ellis stated the color of school buses is not an expenditure issue; with Mr. Beck responding exactly, and that is what he is talking about.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired if the Clerk has objections to contracting out internal auditing; with Mr. Ellis responding no, he does not have a problem working with a contract for internal audits; however, he would request the contracts for internal and external audits be completely separate; with Mr. Jenkins responding he concurs with that.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, seconded by Commissioner Higgs, to contract for internal auditing services with an outside auditing firm, and proceed with further discussion on how the fees are put together.

Mr. Jenkins stated the logical thing is for someone to bring an audit fee back to the Board. Mr. Ellis stated before they can do that, the Board needs to determine what its audit committee is, but he is in agreement with a contract. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Clerk will no longer do the audits as part of his function; and it will be contracted externally; with Mr. Ellis responding that is not quite the motion. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if Mr. Ellis has concerns about how the motion is stated; with Mr. Ellis responding yes, his concern is that the internal auditor should report to the Clerk. Commissioner Scarborough suggested that issue be kept separate. Mr. Ellis stated he does not want the motion to negate that possibility. Chairman Carlson stated it is not negating anything and just says they are going to privatize the function.

Commissioner Colon advised the Board is paying over $400,000 a year for internal auditing and about $135,000 for an external financial audit; but there was discussion that the amount is not realistic because it would take more manpower. She stated if the auditors started in August, they would have a few people; by November/December, they would have about six people; and by January, they would come in with ten people, then the whole process would be able to get done quicker. She stated that is the way to go, because what they are doing now is not acceptable.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

Chairman Carlson asked Mr. Beck to explain the audit committee function operated by the School Board and the advantages and disadvantages of that scenario. Mr. Beck advised the School Board established an audit committee, which is a standing committee that has governance over the internal audit function; the primary mission of the committee is to ensure the financial responsibility and operations are conducted in an appropriate manner; they have an oversight function, and review and approve the audit plan; and a primary purpose of the committee is to elevate the level of independence of the function. He stated the audit committee also provides a liaison between the governing board and internal auditors; the internal auditors do not report to one individual of management, and report to the audit committee; and the committee, comprised of five members, reviews the findings of the internal audits, talks about what action should be taken, provides the last interface, and monitors the actions that are taken in connection with the audit findings. Mr. Beck stated the committee provides a level of assurance that things will be taken care of from the results of the audits; and because the internal audit function is an extension of management, it is part of the internal control system. He stated the annual financial audit that happens at the end of the year is a post-audit of transactions, but the internal audit function is an ongoing process that provides added assurances that internal controls are in place and operating as they should be, and that compliance matters are taken care of and looked at. He stated the internal audit function is an important part of the internal system; and the audit committee reviews and approves audits and monitors the internal audit process. Chairman Carlson inquired if the internal audit also adds to enhance the financial audit; with Mr. Beck responding absolutely. Chairman Carlson inquired how long has the School Board operated this way, and have audit committees been around for a long time; with Mr. Beck responding this is the third year at the School Board, but audit committees have been around for a long time and are recommended. Chairman Carlson inquired how does the GFOA define the audit committee in terms of what it would recommend through its best practices standards; with Mr. Beck responding the GFOA recommends a committee of three to five members; but he recommends five to seven members because it provides a more diverse group to review audit results, oversee the audit function, provide interface with internal auditors and external auditors, receive the reports, and provide liaison between the governing body and the internal and external audit functions. Chairman Carlson inquired if the internal auditors are free to float within all agencies of the School Board; with Mr. Beck responding yes, they perform a risk assessment of each operation and bring that assessment back to the audit committee to discuss their recommendations as to what the priorities are for the internal audit program on a phase basis. He stated it is an ongoing process, and they are free to look at any type of operation. Chairman Carlson inquired if there were constituency input that would cause them to believe it is not a good idea to have an internal audit, and how do the School Board members feel about the results they get; with Mr. Beck responding they have never had a negative comment, much less someone thinking it is not a good idea; they received very positive comments from the School Board and audit committee; so they have good reviews from everyone involved, from the governing board to the departments and administration, including the Superintendent's office.

Commissioner O'Brien suggested the Chairman of the Board of County Commissioners, County Manager or his designee, Clerk, and County Finance Director be part of the process; and perhaps the chairman and vice chairman of the Budget Review Committee could be appointed as the citizen representatives, since they have already gone through the process of learning how the budget is created and toured the facilities.

Commissioner Higgs advised the GFOA makes several recommendations; Mr. Jenkins made recommendations in his draft resolution of two Commissioners, the Clerk, the County Manager, and a qualified citizen to be determined by the Board; and the GFOA recommended the majority should be selected from outside of management and include at least one representative from the executive and legislative branches, sufficiently large, and to ensure that its members possess the skills needed to realize the committee's objectives.

Mr. Jenkins advised the issue of taking someone from the Budget Review Committee is how much time can that individual give if he or she is making a strong time commitment to the Budget Review Committee. Mr. Ellis stated those are truly independent people who are involved in the appropriation process; and the majority of the members on the committee has to be individuals not involved in the appropriation process to have a proper audit.

Mr. Beck suggested the Finance Director not be a part of the audit committee because his/her Department is the focal point of an internal audit; and stated in order to elevate the level of independence, the Board may want to ensure the Finance Director does not serve on that committee. He stated as for the citizenry, the School Board looked at getting someone from the CPA profession who understood auditing, the accounting profession, etc.; and the other targeted individual was from the business community who understood audits, operations, financial management, etc. to make sure the auditing committee had the skills necessary to properly conduct that function. He stated they also discussed expanding the committee from five members to seven members; but he is not sure if that has taken place. Chairman Carlson inquired what would the committee be at seven members; with Mr. Beck responding it would be two more citizens. Chairman Carlson inquired if they would qualify those persons; with Mr. Beck responding probably to the extent of the time involved in accomplishing the function, working with the committee, looking at reports, and understanding the concepts. He stated one of the main qualifications would be that they understand business, audits, etc., and be able to review audit plans, results, etc. and have the time to do that. Mr. Ellis advised there are retired auditors who may be able to handle that function on the committee.

Commissioner Colon advised Mr. Beck is talking about the School Board while the Board is talking about Brevard County; the citizens of the County elected a Clerk of Courts who has been doing the internal auditing; it is somewhat awkward to talk about a committee and how it will work; but it has to have citizen involvement. She stated going out for the auditing services is a good compromise, but the Board has not discussed the issue of independence. She stated the Clerk already oversees the Board's finances; he was elected by the citizens from one end of the County to the other; they knew the job description of the Clerk, and felt they would be able to have an independent person to look at the finances of the County; so she does not support a committee, and would prefer that the auditing firm be under the Clerk. She noted it would be a nice combination and serve the Board's objectives.

Mr. Ellis advised there are two parts to that point; (1) is the makeup of the committee, which would help direct the auditing firm; and (2) the Brevard County government or the Clerk being in charge of administering the contract. He stated his thoughts have been that the internal auditing firm would report to the Clerk and work with Mr. Scoles and Mr. Giles; and the committee would set the goals for where the firm will go. He stated someone has to assist the firm in the day-to-day operation of doing the audits; they have to report to one agency or the other; and they really cannot report to both.

Chairman Carlson stated it is mixing two items together, as far as who is overseeing the committee and whether it will have a committee. She stated she appreciates Commissioner Colon's point, but the constituency elected five Commissioners as well to be accountable for everything they do in the County; and the Clerk is also elected, but has specific tasks, which are to oversee court issues and service the courts. Mr. Ellis stated that is one of the tasks of the Clerk, but not the specific task. Chairman Carlson stated she understands that, but the Board should not overlook the fact that the same constituency that elected every official in the County elected individual Commissioners to do their jobs; there are five independent individuals on the Board who were elected and have to provide accountability to those people just like the Clerk has to for the job he was elected for; so in terms of making the case of the audit committee, it is a very strong case to have the committee made up of two independently elected Commissioners, or one, or the Chair, and have a mix so the oversight will be extremely objective. Mr. Ellis advised that goes against the GFOA practices that Mr. Jenkins distributed, about the auditors reporting outside the staff or line management of the unit under audit. He stated the unit under audit is Brevard County government; the line management for Brevard County is Mr. Jenkins who reports to five Commissioners; and if the majority of the committee is County Commissioners, County Manager, and County appointees, it violates the GFOA recommended practices for accounting. Commissioner Higgs stated she does not think that is what it says; the GFOA recommendation says, "majority of the members of the committee shall be selected from outside management; and at the same time include at least one representative from the executive and legislative branches of government." She stated that could be Mr. Jenkins for executive and a Commissioner for legislative; and outside of management would be someone other than Mr. Jenkins. Mr. Ellis stated that is correct, but the recommendation does not have the majority of the members outside management. He noted Mr. Jenkins reports to the five Commissioners who have the ability to terminate him at any time.

Chairman Carlson requested Mr. Beck give the Board an interpretation of the GFOA recommendation. Commissioner Ellis inquired how many School Board members serve on the audit committee; with Mr. Beck responding one, the Chairman. Commissioner Higgs stated the Superintendent also serves on the committee. Mr. Jenkins inquired who else serves on it; with Mr. Beck responding the Superintendent. Commissioner Higgs stated an Area Superintendent is on the committee in addition to the Superintendent. Mr. Ellis inquired who are the other four members; with Mr. Beck responding they are external. Commissioner Higgs stated two are outside citizens. Mr. Ellis inquired if the majority of the members on the committee are external; with Mr. Beck responding that is right. Chairman Carlson stated that is the way she would like to lay out the County's committee. Mr. Ellis stated that is not what has been presented; with Chairman Carlson responding what has been presented is a suggestion by Mr. Jenkins; and what would be more prudent is to go by the GFOA's description.

Commissioner O'Brien suggested one Commissioner, the County Manager, the Clerk, and asking the three Chambers to find somebody with certain qualifications, whether it be a CPA or business person, and one person appointed from the EDC who is a business person with expertise in looking at audits or balance sheets, and understanding rules and regulations, who can volunteer to sit on the committee. He stated that would be four outside sources, which would include the community in the decision. Commissioner Higgs stated she has no objection to four citizens being suggested, but the process of how they are selected should more adequately reflect the real diversity of the community. She stated if they go to the EDC and the Chambers, it may exclude a number of citizens who may be in other areas and not feel they are being represented through those groups. She stated she heard from some people who feel the membership requirements of the EDC do not include them; so she can go with four, but wants to have additional diversity of where they come from.

Chairman Carlson stated it is important to create criteria to put those citizens on the committee because it is a very important committee that will provide oversight for the County and input to the Board. She stated the Board needs to qualify those individuals, whether they come from the Chambers, EDC, or any other group.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he likes Mr. Beck's idea that they have some experience in the function of auditing; and inquired if the Clerk sees a role in the selection process; with Mr. Ellis responding the appropriate thing would be for the Board to make certain appointments and the Clerk to make certain appointments. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if Mr. Ellis wants to make a couple of appointments and the Board make a couple appointments; with Mr. Ellis responding yes, that would be the proper way to do it. Commissioner Scarborough inquired about concurrence on appointments; with Mr. Ellis responding he does not have a problem with that, but does not want to get into another Parrish-type situation. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if Mr. Ellis agrees with the Chair, Manager, Clerk or their designees, the Chair of the Board chairing the committee; and four appointees made by the Board with concurrence of the Clerk. Mr. Ellis stated there should be enough respect between the Board and the Clerk that he would not need to check on the Board's appointees; and they should just respect each others appointees. Commissioner Higgs stated the committee should be five members, the County Manager, Clerk, Chairman of the Board or designee, and two citizens.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, to establish an audit committee comprised of the County Manager, Clerk of Courts, Chairman of the Board or designee, and two citizens.

Chairman Carlson inquired if that is against the GFOA recommendation. Mr. Ellis stated he does not have a problem with seven members; and Commissioner O'Brien stated he does not either. Commissioner Higgs stated her motion is to go to five members. Commissioner Scarborough stated the discussion will get tied up in how they appoint the two citizens, as Mr. Ellis would like to make a direct appoint and have the Board make a direct appointment. He stated he would prefer both appointments have concurrence from the Clerk and the Board, but he does not have a problem with five or seven members.

Commissioner Higgs inquired if Commissioner Scarborough is suggesting the Board appoint a citizen who would get concurrence of the Clerk's Office, and the Clerk appoint someone who would get concurrence of the Board; with Commissioner Scarborough responding no, the Board would make both appointments and the Clerk would concur. Mr. Ellis stated he cannot agree with that. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board's appointment process takes place in a public meeting and is part of the public record; and it would make the whole issue more a part of the larger County government, rather than at a lower level, by elevating it to the Board appointments. Mr. Ellis stated by doing so, the Board would control four of the five members on the committee. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Clerk controls the Board even more so because he has only one vote of five and the Clerk has the ability to veto. Mr. Ellis stated it does not work that way.

Chairman Carlson inquired if Commissioner Scarborough is suggesting the membership be a County Commissioner, Clerk, County Manager, and two citizens the Board would appoint. Commissioner Scarborough stated it would also allow the Clerk to say he does not find that person acceptable, and that person would not appear on the list of nominations. He stated those that the Clerk approves, the Board would vote on and appoint.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, seconded by Commissioner Higgs, to establish an audit committee comprised of the Board Chairman, Clerk, County Manager, and two citizens appointed by the Board who are approved by the Clerk for appointment.

Chairman Carlson inquired if there is further discussion; with Mr. Ellis responding yes. Chairman Carlson stated the discussion is for the Board; with Mr. Ellis responding it is a workshop not a Board meeting. Commissioner Scarborough stated he would like to hear from the Clerk. Chairman Carlson stated the Board uses parliamentary procedure; with Mr. Ellis responding that is correct, and after a motion is seconded, it is open for discussion. Chairman Carlson stated the discussion is usually by the Board only; with Mr. Ellis responding this is not a Board meeting.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, to waive the rules and allow the Clerk to speak.

Chairman Carlson allowed Mr. Ellis to speak.

Mr. Ellis advised the Board can take whatever action it wishes, but he cannot support a committee comprised of four people from the County Commission. He stated if the Board goes to a seven-member committee, he could support two appointments by the Board and two appointments by the Clerk's office. He stated what is proposed is essentially County control of four out of five members; and although Commissioner Scarborough said he has veto capabilities, he would be forced to veto good people because there may be somebody better; and that is not a fair position to be in. Commissioner Higgs stated if they are good people, there is no reason to veto them; with Mr. Ellis responding it does not mean they are the best persons for the job just because they are good people. Chairman Carlson stated if Mr. Ellis can get the best person to come forward, there would be a possibility that person would be appointed, so she does not see a problem. Commissioner Higgs stated two outside people would be selected in an open public process from qualified people; anyone may apply; it is a fair and open process; and it elevates the auditing process to a public and useful process.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired if Mr. Ellis would agree to the Board nominating a person and he having the ability to veto the nomination, and he nominating a person with the Board having the ability to veto the nomination; with Mr. Ellis responding that would be fine, but he would prefer to have a seven-person committee because there is a lot of County government on the committee. Commissioner Higgs stated there is not a lot. Mr. Ellis advised the Board has used the School Board as an example and compared it to Brevard County's internal auditing under the Clerk's Office; and it has a seven-person committee. Commissioner Higgs stated the School Board is not currently at seven; with Mr. Beck responding no, it is going to seven. Mr. Ellis inquired why is the School Board going to seven members; with Mr. Beck responding to get a more diverse committee and help the committee with more external input. Mr. Ellis inquired why would the Board of County Commissioners not start there, as the School Board learned five members were not enough, and it is going to seven. He stated the Board would have two appointees and the Clerk would have two appointees. Chairman Carlson commented she does not have a problem with that as it equalizes the committee; and Commissioner Scarborough commented he did not have a problem with that, but the problem may be in nominating appointees and allowing vetoes. He stated the Board and the Clerk need to be jointly involved in this issue; the previous audits have not been elevated to the Board's commitment; and it should have a commitment that there is going to be some significance to the audits.

Chairman Carlson stated if the Board is going to take over the function and try the audit committee, it should start at five members; and if it chooses to go to seven later, that is a totally different story. She stated the School Board found in three years that five worked, but it wants to expand on it; and she does not have a problem going with five and having veto power on one, as it would be more of a compromise.

Commissioner Scarborough withdrew the previous motion. Motion by Commissioner Scarborough to authorize the Board to nominate one citizen for the Clerk's approval and the Clerk to nominate one person for the Board's approval to the audit committee.

Chairman Carlson advised the motion is to define an audit committee that is made up of five individuals, the Chairman of the Board, the County Manager, the Clerk of Courts, and two citizens, one of whom is nominated by the Clerk for the Board to confirm and the other nominated by the Board for the Clerk to confirm; and called for a second to the motion. Hearing none, Chairman Carlson seconded the motion.

Mr. Ellis inquired if the item has to be done by ordinance; with Chairman Carlson responding it will be done by resolution.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion did not carry; Commissioners Scarborough and Carlson voted aye; and Commissioners O'Brien, Higgs and Colon voted nay.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, seconded by Commissioner O'Brien, to establish an audit committee comprised of five members with two citizens appointed by the Board of County Commissioners.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired if it is with the Clerk's veto or not. Chairman Carlson requested the motion be repeated. Commissioner Higgs advised the motion is a five-member committee made up of County Manager or designee, Clerk or designee, Chairman of the County Commission or designee, and two citizens appointed by the Board of County Commissioners through a public process.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough to amend the motion to require that appointments from the Board be approved by the Clerk. Chairman Carlson called for a second to the motion to amend; and hearing none, declared the motion died for lack of a second.

Mr. Ellis stated the Board can vote whatever it wishes, but the Clerk's Office is not going to support a rubber stamp committee for Brevard County to audit itself.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered; Commissioners O'Brien, Higgs and Carlson voted aye; and Commissioners Scarborough and Colon voted nay.

Mr. Jenkins inquired if the motion included adoption of the resolution as amended to change the membership; with Commissioner Higgs responding affirmatively.

Chairman Carlson advised the Board has created the audit committee, but needs to decide on the actual oversight and where the function will occur. Mr. Jenkins stated his understanding is that the committee would develop a work plan based on input from the five members and any other persons who wish to testify; then the auditing firm that is selected would come back with an auditing plan. Chairman Carlson inquired who would select the auditing firm; with Mr. Jenkins responding staff would come back with a selection committee; and inquired if the Board would include in the motion to proceed with drafting a request for proposals and a selection committee. Chairman Carlson stated it would need to be a new motion.

Commissioner Higgs stated the Board has indicated a high level of concern about audits, and the implementation of this issue has to be the direct responsibility of the highest levels of the Board's function; the Board holds the County Manager and his staff accountable for implementation, and that it be expeditiously implemented and fully utilized; and she is sure the Board will hear from the Clerk if it is not done properly.

Mr. Ellis advised the Board has essentially created an internal audit function underneath the County Manager to audit itself; it has set up a committee that is four-fifths Brevard County Commission; and it has set up a committee that will now audit the very people who do the appropriations, which is directly in conflict with any kind of auditing standard. Commissioner Higgs stated if the Clerk and the two citizens selected make up the majority of the committee, then the majority is outside the government; and the Board is outside the executive branch of government. She stated the model in Osceola County, which has the auditor responding directly to the Board, is a wonderful model; and it is the Board's auditor accountable directly to the Board. She stated the Board can take direct accountability for the contract, but on a day-to-day basis the implementation has to fall to somebody. Commissioner Scarborough advised he, Mr. Ellis, and Mr. Jenkins talked about an independent elected comptroller similar to the Comptroller for Orange County; and this issue may lead to changing the Charter in the future to have an elected comptroller, where even the Clerk's Office could be audited. Mr. Ellis stated he is for that. Commissioner Scarborough stated the independence of auditing from the Board is important; and he hopes the Board will move in that direction.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, seconded by Commissioner Colon, to direct that the internal auditing firm report and be responsible to the Clerk's Office on the day-to-day function.

Commissioner Higgs inquired if the motion is about the implementation of the committee; with Commissioner Scarborough responding as the auditor works through the process, he may need to report to somebody, and that should be the Clerk. Commissioner Higgs stated if the Chairman of the Board is going to be the chair of the committee, the committee needs to sort through that issue. Commissioner Scarborough stated committees are policy bodies; they need an office and administrative function to coordinate ongoing activities; the Finance Department is a great depository of information and has historically been involved in audits; so the Clerk's office would be the appropriate place at this time.

Commissioner Colon inquired what good is an elected internal auditor in the future if the Board is taking the functions away, and how much is it taking away and giving itself more power. She stated that is wrong; the Board has done enough; it has put a committee together and taken the powers away from the Clerk; so the least it can do is allow the Clerk to oversee the day-to-day operation of the auditors. Chairman Carlson stated the power is placed on the Commissioners who are also elected officials; if that power is enhanced, the taxpayers' powers are enhanced by five objective individuals who are elected by those people; and if it is put in the hands of one individual who is elected by the people, there is not much objectivity or ability to translate that to accountability for the purposes of their offices. She stated they are accountable to the entire citizenry and the Clerk is also; but when someone calls their offices to say there is a problem, they do not call the Clerk's office; they are the ones who are accountable, not the Clerk; and putting the power under the Clerk for oversight is a mistake. She stated it has been a mistake for the last few years that the Clerk had it because the Board had no control over the dollars that were put into internal auditing. Mr. Ellis stated that is not true; and he is the only person who has been in both seats.

Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board has a Budget office that is prospective; and the Clerk's office balances the checkbooks, but historically had the function of auditing. He stated if the Board turns the reporting function over to its staff, it is basically having them report to the very body that is being audited. Chairman Carlson stated it should come to the oversight group that is elected and not to the Manager. Commissioner Scarborough stated the report is ultimately issued to the Board; and inquired on a day-to-day basis, who will be involved in managing the contract, Management Services or the Clerk's Office. He stated Management Services is sort of the body that is under audit; historically the Clerk had the independence for auditing; now there are citizens involved and the Board making appointments; and to remove this function and put it under a County Department is a breach of where the Board should be going. Mr. Jenkins advised it should be the function of the audit committee to develop an audit plan; staff would not manage the plan or do the audit; the auditors would have the responsibility to do the audits; and the reason for a committee is to manage the audits. Mr. Ellis stated that is not how County contracts are done; and he does not think there is any contract let by the Board that does not have a person in County government with an oversight function. Mr. Jenkins stated it would be more clerical because the auditing firm would do the actual audits.

Chairman Carlson stated her concern is the use of the dollars for auditing to absorb overtime pay, etc., which is not a reflection on Mr. Ellis who is not responsible for what happened in the Clerk's office over the last few years in terms of computer problems; and it is a risk until Mr. Ellis has an opportunity to figure out what is going on and making sure he is doing everything possible to make it run smoothly for the courts and everything else. She stated to provide him with the additional burden of the oversight function is too much of a risk to take; and she does not want to spend taxpayers' money in that way and have the potential that those dollars would not be used appropriately. Mr. Ellis stated he made a commitment to the Board at the first meeting in November, before he took office, that the money for auditing will not be used for anything but auditing; and inquired if that is still Chairman Carlson's issue. Chairman Carlson stated it is a big risk. Mr. Ellis stated there is no risk; with Chairman Carlson responding there is a risk because Mr. Ellis has not been on the job long enough to figure out all the problems that exist in the Clerk's Office. She inquired if the computer problem is fixed; with Mr. Ellis responding no. Chairman Carlson stated that is what she is referring to. Mr. Ellis stated that has nothing to do with the audit function; with Chairman Carlson responding it has a lot to do with the way the County is being run and how the court services are being utilized. Mr. Ellis stated that has nothing to do with the audit function; and not everything in County government is fixed as of today either, which does not mean other parts will not run well.

Commissioner Higgs advised the Board has established an audit committee and should let that committee implement the audit. She stated they can come to the Board regarding their administrative needs; and they will be accountable for producing the budget to the Board. She stated it should be left to the audit committee and not in either group's court, to be fully independent; and the Board should let the committee do its job and report back to the Board as to its plan for implementation. Mr. Ellis inquired how many contracts in the County report to a committee.

Chairman Carlson stated there is a motion on the floor; and requested the maker of the motion repeat it. Commissioner Scarborough state the motion is for the internal auditors to report to the Clerk, because there needs to be some administrative oversight, and historically the Clerk's office is better prepared; and there may be a conflict of reporting to the Budget office. Chairman Carlson advised the motion was seconded by Commissioner Colon.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired if Commissioner Higgs wants the committee to implement the auditing function; with Commissioner Higgs responding the committee should give the Board an implementation plan on how it wants to implement the process; and if it needs assistance in doing that, it can tell the Board what it needs. She stated that would give full authority for the audit committee to implement what the Board asks it to do. Mr. Ellis inquired how many other contracts in County government report to an appointed committee. Chairman Carlson stated an implementation plan is a good idea; and they have to report to somebody. Mr. Jenkins stated they would report to the committee. Mr. Ellis stated they would report to the County Manager and make a report to Mr. Whitten; with Mr. Jenkins responding that is not correct; the committee would be a diverse group of people from various walks of life who represents the public interest and can manage the process. He stated what is being discussed is scheduling meetings and providing minimal secretarial support; the committee will get an audit plan from the auditors it selects; it will get progress reports from the auditors it selects; it will monitor the productivity and results; and the audit results would come to the Board of County Commissioners. Commissioner Colon inquired who would the auditors report to in the every day operation, since they cannot go to the committee that will meet once a month or whatever. She stated the motion is basically that the Board does not want it under the County Manager or the Clerk. Mr. Jenkins stated he understands what the motion is; but once the auditors develop a work plan, they would not have to come to him for direction on a daily basis; and they would implement that work plan approved by the committee.

Commissioner Scarborough stated if they have a work plan that does not need reporting, there would not be any reporting; however, if there needs to be some administrative coordination and the committee cannot meet, everything will come to a halt; so they need to operate with an ongoing administrative activity.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion did not carry; Commissioners Scarborough and Colon voted aye; and Commissioners O'Brien, Higgs and Carlson voted nay.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, seconded by Commissioner O'Brien, to allow the audit committee to outline its plans and report back to the Board of County Commissioners on any needs it may have in regard to administrative assistance or whatever its plan might be.

Mr. Ellis stated he wants to make sure he has it straight; the Board is going to form an audit committee, so essentially internal audit will now be performed by a committee appointed by the Board, directed by the Board, and overseen by the Board to audit the Board; and inquired if that is correct; with Mr. Jenkins responding he does not think that is the motion. Mr. Ellis inquired what part of that is not correct; with Mr. Jenkins responding the fact that Mr. Ellis will be on the committee. Mr. Ellis stated he is one member out of five. Mr. Jenkins stated there will be two citizens on the committee also; and if Mr. Ellis is suggesting they would not have independence or would not be objective, the Board does not have to agree with his conclusion.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered; Commissioners O'Brien, Higgs and Carlson voted aye; and Commissioners Scarborough and Colon voted nay.

Chairman Carlson advised that concludes the work the Board wanted to do. Mr. Ellis stated there is still clean up it has to do; he has a formal Charter that was set up between the Clerk's office and Brevard County government that needs to be addressed; and perhaps the County Attorney can review it. County Attorney Scott Knox advised it appears that the Board of County Commissioners, back in 1980, adopted a policy, which it called a charter, that allowed the Clerk to be the internal auditor; and what the Board has done today is to remove that function from the Clerk and hand it to an independent outside auditing firm with oversight by a committee; so it may need to repeal that policy. He stated the Board may want to authorize preparation of a resolution that would have that effect. Mr. Jenkins stated the resolution passed today could take care of that; with Mr. Knox responding the Board should do it in a public meeting. Chairman Carlson requested the County Attorney recommend the appropriate action; with Mr. Knox responding the Board would need a resolution to repeal the policy at a public meeting.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, that the Resolution adopted by the Board include the removal of the charter, agreement, or policy made in 1980, if it stands as an impediment to what the Board just approved.

Mr. Ellis inquired if it would be more proper to bring back a resolution at a public meeting; with Mr. Jenkins responding this is a public meeting. Commissioner Higgs stated this is a public meeting that was advertised to take business and the public is present; the resolution was included in the agenda packet; so the action can be completed.

Chairman Carlson requested Commissioner Higgs repeat the motion. Commissioner Higgs stated the motion is to include the repeal or rescission of that previous policy in the Resolution. Chairman Carlson called for a second to the motion; and hearing none, seconded the motion.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired if that is the way the Board has to handle it, and does it satisfy the concerns; with Mr. Knox responding that is the way the Board needs to handle it based on what he knows about it; but he will go back and research the minutes on how it was passed. He stated it does not say anything about an ordinance, so the Board could do it by resolution.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered; Commissioner Colon voted nay.

Commissioner Colon inquired when will the Board discuss the budget and facilities under the Clerk. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if the Board wants to take a break then come back and discuss it; with Chairman Carlson responding the Board will take a five-minute break.

The meeting recessed at 10:35 a.m., and reconvened at 10:45 a.m.

DISCUSSION, RE: CLERK'S BUDGET, FACILITIES, AND OTHER MATTERS

Chairman Carlson advised the coversheet of the Agenda item for the audit issue talks about discussing with the Clerk, his budget, facilities, and other matters.

Commissioner Colon stated she wanted an opportunity for the Board to speak to the new Clerk, get some feedback, and find out how the Board can help him or he can help the Board.

Clerk of the Circuit and County Courts Scott Ellis advised he found out yesterday that his office will have about $110,000 coming back from last year's budget; a memo has been prepared to transfer that sum to the County when it comes in because it was for last year's appropriations; and that will be coming back to the Board in about four weeks. Chief Deputy Clerk Jim Giles advised the State has changed the reimbursement method on child support relating to the cost the County can recover; and the Clerk's office can recover approximately an additional $110,000 from last year.

County Manager Tom Jenkins advised staff has been working with the Clerk's office very cooperatively on space issues in the Government Center-North; the Clerk has been working with the County's Information/Communication Systems staff to do some wiring, etc.; and County staff has been working with him on several issues. He stated one issue that remains outstanding is recording of information about traffic; they have been working on projections for some time; and the Clerk is trying to get that up to date. Mr. Ellis advised Tiburon has taken over the contract from PSI and should have that ready in April. Chairman Carlson inquired if they expect to have everything running operationally by April; with Mr. Ellis responding no, just the financial reporting part of the system. Mr. Ellis advised they are also looking at fallback positions; he will send people to Martin County in March to look at State software in case they have to go to a hybrid type of system between the FACTS and some of the State's software, because there are some major performance issues with the Tiburon software that he is not sure can be resolved.

Mr. Ellis requested the $110,000 be used to complete the facilities in Titusville. He stated a jury room is being constructed in what used to be the generator room for the jail; and that room needs to be completed before they can convert the Brevard Room for office space to set up workstations for his employees. He stated there were some funding concerns earlier this year, and Facilities Management did not have enough money to handle that; the Clerk's office looked at spending the money to finish the jury room; but since the State money is coming in, he requests it be used to finish those facilities. He stated his preference would be to front the County the money out of fees to get the work done, and be reimbursed in four to six weeks when the State money comes in. Mr. Jenkins stated he would concur with that, because the Clerk needs the space in Titusville; the project is in the CIP as unfunded; and now it could be funded if the Board uses those proceeds.

Commissioner Scarborough advised Mr. Ellis indicated he could effect a recurring cost savings; and inquired if he would explain that. Mr. Ellis advised as employees return to Titusville to work, because the band width of the lines between Viera and Titusville is fairly slow, they can accomplish work in less time in Titusville than in Viera; he would lose some time for the courier to pick up files and drive them to Titusville; however, that time is negated by the much faster time for data entry operators in Titusville; so he is working to move as many people back to Titusville as possible. Commissioner Scarborough inquired about the projections on savings to the Clerk's budget; with Mr. Ellis responding he cannot say for sure, but he has seen overtime costs drop $10,000 to $20,000 a month so far; and he thinks they can achieve more savings than that. He stated the Clerk's office normally has about $500,000 in overtime and temporary costs because of weekend duty and night duty with trial overruns; last year it went from $500,000 to $1.5 million, which is why Mr. Crawford came to the Board towards the end of the year for additional funding; and he is working to bring that number back down. He stated much of it is related to the performance of the computer system; and what Mr. Lamers has done with the new data lines will also improve performance. Mr. Jenkins stated renovating space in Titusville will reduce some of the crunch at the Moore Justice Center; so that is another benefit.

Chairman Carlson inquired where would the internal auditors be housed; with Mr. Jenkins responding there is space at the Government Center. Chairman Carlson inquired if it would help the Clerk free up more space; with Mr. Jenkins responding it will give him additional space. Mr. Ellis noted there is space for internal auditing in the Government Center-North.

Mr. Ellis advised Mr. Jenkins needs to get with Mr. Burdett to prepare a budget change request to transfer money from the Clerk back to the County to fund the internal audit contract. He requested that Mr. Scoles be allowed to remain under that budget for this fiscal year, and he will most likely fund that position out of fees in the next fiscal year. Commissioner Higgs stated the Board needs to see a budget change order. Chairman Carlson inquired when is that coming forward; with Mr. Jenkins responding they will put it on the agenda. Chairman Carlson inquired if there were any questions for the Clerk.

Mr. Ellis advised he has concerns about serving four courthouses; within two or three years, the Clerk's office will mainly operate from State funding and fees; he is not sure fees will support four courthouses; so he has concerns about any option that involves four courthouses. He stated he believes Judge Chance's Order only allows three courthouses; with Mr. Jenkins responding that is correct. Commissioner Higgs stated it speaks to circuits. Mr. Ellis stated four courthouses may become cost prohibitive. Chairman Carlson advised Mr. Ellis that the Board would appreciate his input when that issue comes up at the workshop on February 27, 2001; and requested he bring any facts that can help the Board in its decision making. She inquired if Mr. Ellis had any other issues to share with the Board.

Mr. Ellis advised he expects to come up short on the court side for salaries and budget before the end of the fiscal year; he is monitoring it every two weeks; and he expects to be before the Board in three to four months. Chairman Carlson inquired if it is for overtime to deal with the problems; with Mr. Ellis responding yes.

Mr. Ellis stated when the pay raises came out, he could only use half of the County's money appropriated for pay raises for the Clerk's office because he could not match the full amount. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if the Clerk's employees got the same raises as other employees; with Mr. Ellis responding no, but all his employees got the same raise. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if they got the same amount as Road and Bridge personnel; with Mr. Ellis responding no, there was no way he could match a 9% pay raise. Commissioner Scarborough stated he does not like to see different people in the County getting different levels of pay raises; with Commissioner Higgs responding the Clerk's office has done it differently every year; and over the years the Clerk, Sheriff, or whoever have given raises. Mr. Ellis stated he remembers one year the Clerk gave raises when the Board's employees took no pay raises. Commissioner O'Brien stated the judiciary gave its staff equal to what the State employees got paid; and he was not pleased with that because it created an unlevel playing field for everyone on the County side of the street. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board asked the constitutional officers not to give pay raises, and found out subsequently that some of them did; and it is never a good feeling for employees. Mr. Ellis stated he does not have a choice. Chairman Carlson stated if Mr. Ellis can start accruing potential savings and get back on track, which she feels confident he can do, the Board could make the pay raises consistent across all County agencies; and that would be the ultimate goal. Mr. Jenkins advised he has committed to the Clerk that the County would hold its share of the contribution in reserve in the event he can match if by the end of the year. He stated the Clerk has two budgets, a fee budget and a County budget; and the County will retain its portion that he does not use for salaries now in reserve, so if he can use it later in the year, it will be available. Mr. Ellis stated his concern is that the money will slowly be eaten away every two weeks in overtime. Commissioner Scarborough inquired why should someone working for the Clerk's office pay for the failure of a computer system. Mr. Ellis stated he understands the point, but he does not have $400,000 in fees to match the County's share; the situation has improved because initially the Clerk's office was in the red in August and September, and Mr. Crawford planned no raises because the financial situation was so poor; but with the move back to Titusville, it is improving and he was able to come up with $200,000 to match about half of the County's appropriation, which is better than nothing. He stated he is confident by next year he will have a more realistic budget; one problem was the Clerk's office has about 300 regular employees, and 80 temporary employees were not budgeted; and he is working to resolve that before coming to the Board with his budget in the summer and will have a more realistic budget regarding the number of employees.

Commissioner O'Brien stated he does not like to see anyone not get their fair raise at the same time a person performing the same task does, whether it be a secretary, accountant, whatever; there should be a level playing field with what they are paid; and if a Clerk's secretary gets $12.50 an hour, which he does not really know, and a County secretary gets $9.25 an hour, there is a great disparity. Mr. Ellis advised he has certain employees funded by the Board and others funded by fees; and he did not want to be in the position of giving 9% raises for budget employees and 4.5% for fee employees, because that would really have caused a problem.

Chairman Carlson thanked Mr. Ellis for his input.

DISCUSSION, RE: QUALITY GROWTH BEST PRACTICES

Chairman Carlson requested an overview from staff on the Quality Growth Best Practices.

Planning and Zoning Director Mel Scott advised at the end of last year he provided the Board with a memorandum identifying 11 universally recognized quality growth practices, which were obtained from review of State and national practices, and activities the County is engaged in to further those guiding principles for quality growth, and some additional measures for Board discussion that may be investigated further or implemented, which are also widely-regarded as quality growth best practices. He stated at a previous workshop, the Board discussed the item and decided to bring it back to this workshop; and he will comment on them when asked, but wishes to obtain guidance from the Board on which practices to pursue.

Chairman Carlson advised she requested Commissioners formulate their priorities, and received input from two Commissioners; her priorities are (1) encourage growth in regions with existing and planned infrastructure and the CIP process; (2) promote improvements in local development patterns through comprehensive land use planning, etc.; (3) encourage greenways and trails; and (4) strengthen partnerships with other organizations, specifically the strategic cultural plan. She stated the Board talked about a smart growth or quality growth concept as a goal to work with; and inquired if staff wants to identify things that the Board could formulate into a policy, and how does the Board want to approach it.

County Manager Tom Jenkins advised the Board may want to come up with some priorities; and if it can prioritize one, two, or three, focus on those, and come back and do additional ones later, it would make it more manageable.

Commissioner Higgs suggested starting with what the Board may think are priorities as opposed to going through the entire list. Commissioner Scarborough stated he has two items, and one relates to the concurrency issue. Chairman Carlson stated Commissioners Higgs and Colon and she included concurrency in their lists, so the Board should start there.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he asked Jim Egan from the Marine Resources Council to come to the workshop; and the Board talked about preserving the Indian River Lagoon and St. Johns River, but not to what extent is water being maintained to the higher level, what impact does it have on drying out of vegetation, and the freshwater bubbles suppressing salt water. He requested the Board allow Mr. Egan to talk about the problems of lower water levels. He stated the County could be doing a lot of things through public education, and it could end up with a new environment because of that.

Jim Egan advised no one should underestimate the need to work towards maintaining the amount of pervious surface in terms of providing water to the groundwater as well as reducing the amount of drainage that takes place. He stated the Board needs to eliminate the old choices from its play book and move in a direction of modern thinking which is retention, and sending water in the direction where historically it would go. He stated the Florida Lawns and Neighborhoods Program found that increasing impervious surface above 15% in an area would drop the neighboring waters bio-diversity by 50%; 15% is unheard of for development; a typical development is 30 to 35% impervious surface; and it is already showing the kinds of impacts that can develop. He stated low-cost ways to turn that number around are to direct downspouts toward vegetated areas, which would take a huge portion of the impervious surface and bring it back to the groundwater as well as take it away from the runoff; they know from experience that the quantity that will come out as stormwater in urbanized areas has doubled and comes out twice as fast, so it will impact surface waters twice as quickly; and the quantity going to groundwater will be half as much. Mr. Egan stated the Board is hesitant to involve the average citizen as much as it should; it should start thinking about potential ordinances that would allow a homeowner to respond in a way that is not going to cost him; and it needs to start thinking proactively. He stated significant use of native plants, good tips like the downspouts direction, use of swales, etc. are things that need to be considered because the value of water for future drinking needs, irrigation, and preventing damage caused by water during storm events are becoming cost prohibitive. He stated people may not see the connection of draining groundwater and the cost of wildfires; a melaleuca tree can actually cause a vapo transpiration at seven times the rate of a pool of water open to the sun; it causes a tremendous loss of valuable groundwater; and it was brought here to attempt to drain the Everglades because it was one of the most significant plants for doing that. He stated people are now paying the price for the type of thinking that went on then; now it has a new type of thinking, but it does not have the luxury of allowing that to run its course and solve the problems; most experts believe no matter how hard they try, they are never going to fully solve the problems; but if the Board is going to make a major difference and have a major affect in terms of the future and preserving the groundwater table and surface waters, it needs to think creatively and be aggressive in terms of improving the situation and not making it worse. He noted a lot of times decisions made within a limited framework ends up having adverse implications.

Commissioner Scarborough stated it is easy to drain uplands, but if someone wants to build where it is wetter and wants a ditch, the County says it is the rainy season and they are not draining ditches because the St. Johns River is backed up. He stated there is a great demand to drain lands; the County has a system that will get rid of water in a hurry; and the last thing it wants to do is get rid of that water because there are terrible things happening in the Central Ridge in Lake County with a 45-hole golf course. He stated it would mean that plants with roots in the water table are no longer in the water table during certain periods; and there will be more intense fire events. Mr. Egan stated they have been doing fire suppression for many years; fire events are related to having a lot of fuel in Brevard County; and many of the areas that are burning include marsh areas because the groundwater table has dropped precipitously and continues to drop. He stated the County cannot expect the groundwater table to return to historic levels because of impervious surfaces that have been done; so it has to be very aggressive to maintain groundwater levels that are desirable in terms of protecting areas and nearby homes from wildfires. Commissioner Scarborough stated historically the Board looked at drainage as retention near low areas and near the lagoon to stop stormwater from polluting the lagoon; what Mr. Egan is talking about is totally different; and that is to maintain freshwater aquifers throughout the County by new practices; and it will require Road and Bridge and homeowners to look at the situation differently.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, to direct staff to take action to maintain and increase the groundwater table under Concurrency.

Chairman Carlson advised the County has contained the flow of water more to protect the lagoon from runoff; and now Mr. Egan is talking about designing with the natural elements of land, and avoiding ponds, which most subdivisions have, that were used for fill dirt and for retention. She inquired how does Mr. Egan see it changing as far as design for subdivisions. Mr. Egan stated the pond idea is valid and effective; under non-stress times the water quality generally has been improving; but when there is a storm event, they see the worse water quality because most of the ponds are designed to let go when a storm event happens; and that is an engineering issue. He stated older communities were not designed to retain runoff, so those communities allow stormwater to hit the lagoon any way it wants to. He stated there are planned communities that are doing a good job when stress is not there; but when there is stress they let go; but there are some innovative things that are happening outside the normal way of thinking. He advised of a homeowner in Indialantic who filled a portion of his lawn with gravel next to the road then replaced the sod, which has significant stormwater storage capacity; and suggested tools to encourage those types of practices, including wet weather shutoff for sprinkler systems. He stated an infinite amount of money can be spent to stop stormwater runoff, but there is nothing that works better than 100 feet of natural buffer. He suggested homeowners be encouraged to put in more native plants and vegetation and have less surface, which will be more effective in the long run.

Commissioner Scarborough stated if there is water storage on high sands it goes back in and adds to the freshwater bubble at a ratio of one to seven; but if it goes down in a storm drain to a retention pond near the lagoon, it is lost. He stated Mr. Egan suggested things that are not a tremendous cost; it is just to keep it at the top where it will have a positive ratio of keeping the freshwater; and the County has ignored that in Road and Bridge projects and has not provided that information through the Agriculture Center. Chairman Carlson stated it is part of absorbing as much water as possible and letting it disseminate naturally versus sending it away for protection of the lagoon and during flood events.

Chairman Carlson advised her first priority is doing a critical habitat survey; and it is important to finish that so the development community will know what is crucial to protect and preserve and what is good for water absorption. She stated the status report on the Comprehensive Plan showed a majority of issues that were not achieved in the Natural Resources category; the County has been ignoring that; and when it gets built out, it will have major problems. She stated the discussion has alluded to those problems on a water basis; the status report says they cannot achieve the objective of completing the critical habitat survey until 2004, which is unacceptable to her; the problem is not enough staff to do the survey; and she would support additional staff because it is critical to the future of Brevard County in terms of dealing with natural resources in the development stage.

Commissioner Higgs inquired if there is the ability to gather information from other sources out- of-house or through a contractor as opposed to staff doing all of the mapping, to cut the cost of getting it done. Chairman Carlson advised she and staff did talk about contracting it out to avoid the need to bring on additional County employees who may or may not be utilized in the future; and asked Mr. Peffer to discuss what he can do to make it happen in 2002.

Assistant County Manager Stephen Peffer advised staff is going to bring back a more detailed staffing report, which the Board asked for as part of the scrub workshop in March, 2001. He stated the Comprehensive Plan was adopted in 1988; and when it was put together, there were many goals and objectives; but the Natural Resources staff has gone from 35 to 20 since then, which has cut back on the capabilities of meeting some of those goals. He stated the management section, which would work on the survey is a supervisor and four people; it is a tremendous workload placed on a small part of Natural Resources; however, if there were specific projects the Board wants them to prioritize, they can devote their efforts to that. He stated they are working on the critical habitat survey now, doing mapping, and will bring information to the Board in the near future; they never expected to take seven or eight years to do the manatee plan; and some of those activities that have taken longer than they thought diverted them from addressing other issues. He stated if the Board would tell them what its priorities are, they will meet those the best they can; they cannot do it all at once; so it is a prioritization process.

Commissioner Scarborough stated Ron Jones is in charge of stormwater; Mr. Egan talked about moving stormwater up the hill as opposed to a retention pond; and he is trying to meet with Bill Kerr and Henry Dean to get their thoughts as well. He stated if it is put in as a goal, Mr. Jenkins could work with his staff and direct it to Mr. Jones; and if it has less flush, it will have cleaner ponds and lagoons. He stated it is all part of the whole system; Mr. Jones has the funds that may expedite this segment; and if the Board puts it in as a goal and asks Mr. Jenkins to move it through, it may find things happening a lot faster.

Commissioner Higgs inquired if Commissioner Scarborough is asking for a process to look at what will happen to water in a development; with Commissioner Scarborough responding the water does not start by the lagoon; the further it is moved away from where it falls, the further disservice the County will be doing to the community in the long run; Mr. Jones has the capacity to work with Mr. Egan and come back with ideas; and it is critical to look at it differently. Chairman Carlson stated she agrees with Mr. Jones and Mr. Peffer working together with the Land Development staff on potential regulations they can author or improve. Commissioner Scarborough stated it may not be regulations, but information disseminated through the Agriculture Department on how to handle stormwater in the system; there may be regulations, but Mr. Egan is talking about going beyond acquisition and regulation to a more comprehensive community that understands not to let water leave their lots and to help them keep it there. Commissioner Higgs advised of the wells in Palm Bay in developed areas that depend on recharge; stated if the water is going to the Indian River and St. Johns River, it is not there to recharge those wells; so it is not only an environmental problem for the receiving water bodies, but it is a significant problem to those people who depend on their wells for water. She stated it is very critical to today's issues which is the drought conditions; and staff needs to look at it and rethink stormwater and other water issues in a global sense if the Board wants to go there.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, seconded by Commissioner Scarborough, to direct staff to rethink stormwater and other issues of water in a global sense and return to the Board with recommendations.

Commissioner Colon recommended a time frame rather than just asking for a report to come back. Chairman Carlson stated she would like to see it done in a team fashion. Mr. Jones suggested 30 days. Commissioner Higgs inquired if it could come back at the scrub workshop in March. Mr. Peffer stated the scrub issue will be back in five or six weeks.

Drainage and Surface Water Improvement Director Ron Jones advised Brevard County is very progressive with respect to aquifer recharge Ordinances; water quality in the lagoon is a balancing act in terms of moving the ponds all the way up the hill because it would not catch the pollutants; so there may be some opportunities for staff to revisit how it is doing business and be more holistic from a Road and Bridge and Stormwater Management perspective. Chairman Carlson stated she is talking about a team approach with Land Development, Road and Bridge, Natural Resources, and Stormwater working together to come up with something.

Commissioner Scarborough stated there are ditches that are draining the groundwater; they were dug so deep to handle a storm event that they are seeping the groundwater and drying out the land around it; the plant material is dried out and the ditches are drying out; and Mr. Egan has a lot of practical ideas that may not be creating a huge study but implementing a lot of little practical things where people are able to work together to have more groundwater. Chairman Carlson stated it would be crucial to have the thoughts of Land Development saying how subdivisions are designed, and how they can change them.

Mr. Egan advised he collected information from the experts at the last conference on the Indian River Lagoon on practical low-cost things that the County can do that would be helpful in terms of the lagoon or whole watershed; there are a number of interesting recommendations that he planned to present to the Board; but he could put them in writing or come to a workshop. Commissioner Higgs stated it would be helpful to get it in writing first. Mr. Egan noted they are ideas from researchers who were involved in the conference.

Discussion ensued on recapturing water, excess water capacity during dry seasons, use of potable water to water lawns and plants, the relationship of shallow wells to potable water, the water systems of Titusville and Palm Bay, wasting water by letting it drain off, injection wells in South Beaches and Merritt Island, who will pay for the need of more water, weirs and ditches, the first line of defense being at the homeowner's property instead of big projects with huge expenses, cost to remedy nutrients, getting information out to make the average citizen a better neighbor to resources, the need for public education by public access television and radio, and municipalities watching what the County will do.

Commissioner Higgs stated the Board needs a staff report on the issues of water and improving what it is doing with water. Mr. Peffer stated there is information available now through the Agriculture Agency; and anyone interested can call 633-1702. He stated St. Johns River Water Management District also has information for homeowners on how they can manage water on their properties by xeriscaping and things of that nature. Mr. Egan advised the Marine Resources Council can be reached at 321-504-4500 and they will bring people to the property and provide native plants at no cost. Chairman Carlson stated education should be done in such a way that it emphasizes the seriousness of the water problems to the average observer.

Chairman Carlson advised Ms. Busacca provided a memo that listed five points on impacts to development practices, groundwater levels, and vegetative communities; and the Board may want to use that as a starting point. She stated they are: "(1) Brevard County Code addresses surficial groundwater supply through aquifer recharge standards. No requirements exist for areas not designated as surficial aquifer recharge or for Floridan aquifer; (2) Increased requirement for preservation and planting of native vegetation and for xeriscaping can decrease use of water for irrigation purposes; (3) Past drainage practices lowered water table, and frequently discharged freshwater to the Indian River lagoon; (4) Wetland alteration practices and groundwater changes alter vegetative communities and hydroperiods within localized areas; and (5) Brevard County's ecosystem is generally a fire-climax community, and periodic burning is required to maintain many native ecosystems." She stated it would be a good place to start to determine where the wetland areas are and what the County needs to do that it is not doing now to preserve water absorption capability. She stated the Board also talked about working with the community on controlled burns that could prevent serious forest fires.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he would prefer to see what staff comes back with rather than confine their report to the list.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, seconded by Commissioner Scarborough, to authorize interdepartmental collaboration on what the County is doing with water and how to do it better.

Commissioner O'Brien advised Brevard County was rated #1 on what is being done for the Indian River Lagoon System; it has done more than any other county along that waterway; and it had a high rating from all the agencies and groups involved in it. He stated he is not saying Brevard County should do less, but wanted to make sure everyone understood that Brevard County has put its money up to clean the Indian River Lagoon and has been successful. Mr. Egan stated absolutely; and there are other counties that have done things Brevard County has not done and could learn from them, but those other counties can look at Brevard County as a good example in many more ways. He stated Brevard County has been very aggressive and on the leading edge in many cases; so it is not lack of happiness of what happened before, but recognizing the greater need for the future that makes them interested in pushing those things forward aggressively.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

Chairman Carlson advised Item #1 is encourage growth in regions with planned infrastructure; several Commissioners talked about concurrency; and inquired if there are any comments from the Board.

Commissioner Higgs stated the inclusion of school issues when looking at rezoning may not be a concurrency issue, but needs to move forward; Orange County is receiving reports from its School Board any time it increases density; and that is something Brevard County needs to do. She stated she does not know if it would require changing the current Zoning Ordinances or not, but the Board needs to get that report when it looks at rezonings that increase densities.

Commissioner Scarborough advised staff is scheduling a workshop with the School Board. Chairman Carlson stated that issue should come in front of the School Board. Mr. Jenkins advised a tentative date has been set, but the Board wanted to see the agenda before formalizing the date. Chairman Carlson stated there is also an interest in looking at school impact fees. Commissioner Higgs stated the Legislature may not allow the County to do some of those things, but there is nothing that precludes the Board from asking the School Board for a report, and including that it is zoning decisions. County Attorney Scott Knox stated he is not aware of any, and as for impact fees, he does not think the Legislature has passed anything on that either, but he will check on that. He noted it may not have made it through the Governor.

Commissioner O'Brien stated it is important to talk about concurrency for areas that develop over time and where concurrency is not applied; and advised of driving on the Beeline, crossing I-95, and seeing houses on both sides of the road that were not there five years ago. He stated concurrency did not look at the enormous jump in construction in that area. Mr. Scott advised the County Attorney for Orange County advised him they have to be careful not to use the words "school concurrency" because it has a specific place in the Florida Statutes; and to do that, the Board would need to have a public facilities element in its Comprehensive Plan. He stated Orange County looks at facility overcrowding; so the Board can look to identify those areas that are currently experiencing school overcrowding. Chairman Carlson inquired if there is a reason why Brevard County has not adopted that element; with Ms. Busacca responding the requirements are very difficult; they have to have all the municipalities agree; it is a very cumbersome list; and that is why it has not been done. Ms. Busacca advised staff can put together information about changes that may be beneficial in the Zoning Code to support the analysis of school facilities. Chairman Carlson stated there is a lot of property already zoned that could have significant impacts; and inquired what can be done about that.

Commissioner Higgs stated some of the plats are very old and unwieldy; Districts 1 and 3 have areas that should be considered for major redevelopment and major partnerships in terms of making those better with roads, drainage, etc.; and as those problems are considered, the Board needs to be open to redevelopment through the use of CDD's, Fannie Mae, etc. She stated they would not take land from anyone, and would compensate owners to make it better in terms of roads, schools, etc. She stated the impacts are going to be there far more if they are left the way they are and are not moved into some dramatic redevelopment.

Commissioner O'Brien stated aside from the School Board issue, concurrency for Brevard County in terms of establishing minimum acceptable levels of service for roadways, solid waste, potable water, drainage, sanitary sewer, parks facilities and services, should consider South Tropical Trail and South Merritt Island as well as the growth in North Merritt Island and how that will impact schools, roads, etc. He stated the roads are very narrow and have ditches on both side; and when the traffic gets much heavier, the infrastructure will not be there to support it.

Chairman Carlson stated a motion may not be needed, but in the form of a directive, have staff include overcrowding of schools on the agenda for discussion with the School Board and how the School Board can look at zoning. Mr. Jenkins stated staff will put together a concept paper for all issues the Board will discuss with the School Board. Commissioner Higgs stated the Board needs to know, from the zoning and land use side, as well as the attorney's side, what issues need to be included in the Zoning Code first; and recommended staff inform the Board of what it needs to do, so it will know, when it meets with the School Board, or at its own zoning meeting, what it has to have in place. Chairman Carlson inquired if the Board wants to set a time frame; with Mr. Jenkins responding they will do it as quickly as possible because that workshop is coming up and the Board wants to see the agenda before then.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, seconded by Commissioner Scarborough, to direct staff to bring back to the Board the things they have to have before the meeting with the School Board.

Chairman Carlson advised she would like to have things the Board needs to do in its practices before talking to the School Board. She called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

Commissioner Higgs advised #1, encourage development in regions with existing and planned infrastructure, gets to the issue of urban boundaries; the municipalities, Merritt Island, and Port St. John are urban areas that have development character, and need to be defined as urban boundaries, which will be supported through infrastructure; and outside those areas where there are agricultural lands, existing farms, etc. and non-urban character should be preserved. She inquired if the areas need to be put on a map as urban boundaries so people will recognize them. Mr. Scott advised typically communities that go in that direction have them on maps; however, it becomes more laborious for the market to expand those areas that it desires to be urban because they have to change the maps. He stated staff has seen that in many areas, including Portland, Northern California, and Pennsylvania; that is a concept the Growth Management Study Commission is grappling with; and the County may see a mandate from this Legislature or the next. He noted he heard it discussed in subcommittees as something they want to have as a minimum requirement in local comprehensive plans. Mr. Jenkins advised the State is looking at it from an economic standpoint, as the cost of development in an urban area is a lot less than in a rural area.

Commissioner Colon advised a representative from the Chamber of Commerce is here, and inquired if she could talk about impact fees so the Board can get feedback from the community. She stated she asked Lynda Weatherman to give the Board some feedback from the business community before going forward with discussion on implementing impact fees. Chairman Carlson inquired if it has to do with urban boundaries; with Commissioner Colon responding no, but the issue of impact fees ties into economics; and because Lee Bohlmann took the time to come to the meeting, she would hate to lose getting feedback from her. Chairman Carlson inquired if Commissioner Colon wants to set aside urban boundaries; with Commissioner Scarborough responding the Board should complete the urban boundaries discussion first, then go to the next subject.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, seconded by Commissioner Scarborough, to direct staff to pursue the concept of urban boundaries and delineate where the County expects infrastructure improvements to occur.

Chairman Carlson inquired if Commissioner Higgs wants that information in a report or discovery; with Commissioner Higgs responding staff needs to provide a step-by-step report of what the Board needs to do to delineate the urban boundaries. Commissioner O'Brien inquired if it should be a staff report or have a consultant do it because it is not a small venture; with Commissioner Scarborough responding the Board should get a report then go to the next step.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

Commissioner Scarborough advised Ms. Busacca looked at Satellite Boulevard in West Canaveral Groves and said it was in the 25-year floodplain and was the demarcation line; if property owners go out there to build, the County may have to put in roads, ditches, etc.; it will begin to change the topography of the area; and Ms. Busacca feels the County would be touching areas that become dangerous to build in. Ms. Busacca stated a significant portion of the West Canaveral Groves area lies within the 25-year floodplain of the St. Johns River. Commissioner Scarborough stated if the St. Johns River is high, certain areas will flood because it will back up; what Ms. Busacca is saying is, regardless of how well the drainage ditch is maintained, it is going to flood during certain times; so as a separate issue, the Board needs to talk about the capacity to build in certain areas. He stated that is a discussion it needs to take up with Henry Dean of St. Johns River Water Management District as well.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, to direct staff to draw demarcation lines where building permits should be issued only under special circumstances.

Commissioner O'Brien suggested stamping building permits or applications that the property is in a floodplain.

Commissioner Scarborough stated a lot of times the County has to build roads and ditches, so it is the first developer; if it did not build roads and ditches, people would not develop; and the St. Johns River Water Management District would work with the County on acquisition of those properties so people will be compensated for their lands. Mr. Jenkins advised in the West Canaveral Groves area, they cannot squeeze sufficient retention and house pad on one acre; if they were to build there, it would take a minimum of two acres or more; but the problem is there are multiple owners. Commissioner Scarborough stated if the County drains that area, it would basically be draining upstream. He stated somebody at the meeting with the St. Johns River Water Management District was interested in purchasing the lands, but would like to work through the County because they do not want to deal with multiple owners; so the County would be the collector of the properties. Commissioner Higgs noted it is not different than what the County did to preserve other lands, and she is willing to do that. Commissioner Scarborough stated his issue is to delineate and define areas that are dangerous to build in.

Commissioner O'Brien stated the Board has a responsibility to warn those property owners by verbiage on the building permit or some other way; it cannot assume people who want to build will understand the lines on a map; and he would prefer a proactive process to help citizens understand their property is in the 25-year floodplain and to plan accordingly. Commissioner Scarborough stated he is not ready to say what the Board should do, but it needs to discuss the issue; and his motion is to include identifying flood hazardous areas in the report on urban boundaries.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, seconded by Commissioner Higgs, to direct staff to include identification of flood hazardous areas in the urban boundaries report.

Commissioner Higgs stated FEMA has recognized that issue across the country in its aggressive hazard mitigation strategies; 100-year floodplain properties are being purchased by FEMA across the country; and staff needs to look into that in defining hazard mitigation areas.

Chairman Carlson inquired if a timeframe should be included in the motion. Mr. Jenkins advised it will take longer than 60 days. Commissioner Higgs suggested 90 days; and Commissioner Scarborough agreed.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion amended to include direction to staff to return with the report in 90 days. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

Lee Bohlmann advised Commissioner Colon invited her to meet with various business organizations in the County and talk about commercial impact fees; impact fees can be onerous or responsible and fair; and she will be happy to coordinate those meetings with County staff to get input from the business side of where the County should be. She stated some say never and others say it is the cost of living in a wonderful place where they want certain things to happen; so they need to have a meeting of the minds and a consensus. She advised she talked to the Home Builders this morning; they have done several things on the State level against impact fees; and their national position is against impact fees, so the Board will hear from them. She stated she will circulate the report she and Ms. Busacca discussed; and it is a matter of getting people together to discuss it again and refresh their minds of what was discussed earlier.

Chairman Carlson advised the Board is saying this is what it is interested in doing because it wants to have a quality community with quality growth; there are best practices to achieve that kind of quality; and the Board is trying to prioritize those. Ms. Bohlmann stated the Board wants to get input from the business community on how they can work together, as everybody will pay, not only a builder or tenant.

Commissioner Higgs stated if the Board sets up a structure to support the urban core areas, other areas may not be encouraged to develop commercially; those in the urban areas can expect certain services and flourish; the County wants the public infrastructure there to serve them; and that should feed into the concept. She suggested staff work with the Chambers so that they have a full briefing of what the County has in terms of studies; so when they get together to talk about it, they will be thoroughly briefed.

Commissioner Scarborough advised it was his understanding that the County did not have the means to justify its abatement of collecting commercial impact fees and that it cannot defend its current posture on that; so there needs to be some dialogue.

Mr. Jenkins inquired if manufacturing is included in the discussion of commercial impact fees; with Commissioner Scarborough responding it is not. Chairman Carlson noted it is commercial establishments like fast food restaurants, gas stations, etc. that increase trips on roads. She stated manufacturing does not increase trips on roads like commercial does.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, to reconsider commercial impact fees; and direct staff to meet with the Chambers and Lee Bohlmann and schedule a report for Board discussion in 90 days.

Commissioner Colon requested the report come back sooner than 90 days. Commissioner Higgs amended the motion to change 90 days to 60 days.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired if it is enough time to meet with the Chambers; with Ms. Bohlmann responding they have a meeting on February 16, 2001 when it can be discussed and coordinated with all the government affairs committees.

Commissioner Colon stated, to take it one step further, the Board needs that working relationship; Lynda Weatherman was very receptive and so was the Chamber; so it is moving right along with some of the things. She stated she is not criticizing former commissions that had obstacles to face at that time; Ms. Bohlmann and Ms. Weatherman have done a marvelous job; the ball has already been rolling regarding the lines of communication for her end; and she will second the motion.

Commissioner O'Brien stated he cannot support it; there are great examples countywide of reduction of impact fees contributing to commercial growth; Wickham Road is an example of robust growth, and so is SR 520; and there are other areas in the County that appreciate the commercial growth that has been robust in the past six years since the commercial impact fees were eliminated. He stated before that, Brevard County was at a standstill; there was virtually almost no growth on the commercial side; and it proved that removing the extra cost enhanced commercial development. He stated it is a huge tax on someone who wants to build a store here; and he cannot travel that route.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered; Commissioner O'Brien voted nay.

Mr. Jenkins advised the Board has given staff five priorities, which is a lot. Chairman Carlson stated the Board is not done yet, but will break for lunch and return.

The meeting recessed at 12:15 p.m., and reconvened at 1:20 p.m.

Chairman Carlson requested staff recap what the Board has done this morning. Ms. Busacca advised the Board requested staff return with information that would include what type of changes would be required to the Land Development Regulations in order for zoning reviews to consider school facilities; requested a report in 60 days on what the County is doing with water and what can it do better, which will be a multi-Department and multi-agency report; requested a report in 60 days on commercial impact fees and coordination with the Chambers and EDC; requested a report in 90 days on urban boundaries that would describe pursuing the concept of urban boundaries further, and outline steps necessary to delineate that; and a report in 60 days on the capacity to build in certain hazard mitigation areas. Commissioner O'Brien advised reports are to come back in 60 and 90 days; however, they are all connected in one way or the other; so the Board may want to plan a workshop in May on all the items rather than talk about one item in two months and another in three months. Commissioner Higgs stated the items may become so big that putting them all together may overwhelm the Board before it deciphers any of them. Commissioner O'Brien stated they could be discussed in May and August. Chairman Carlson stated 90 days is the maximum. Mr. Jenkins noted that is the end of April. Chairman Carlson stated the Board has to look at them in a holistic perspective, but some items can stand alone; and inquired if the Board has other suggestions on how to approach all of them. Ms. Bussaca stated staff was directed to bring forward the zoning reviews to discuss at the joint meeting with the School Board; the Chambers, EDC, and other groups would probably prefer to discuss the commercial impact fees without waiting for discussion on other items; so the Board may want to take the impact fee issue separately. She stated the urban boundaries report would be a concept that outlines steps, so that may not be at the stage where the Board would get into full discussion. Chairman Carlson stated the Board may be able to deal with that at a regular meeting, depending on the information staff gathers, before deciding whether it wants to hold another workshop. She stated if at the Board meetings staff can bring up the items and advise of how they tie into the others, it would help the Board to move along and keep the big picture concept. Mr. Jenkins stated urban boundaries and capacity to build in floodplains are inter-related, but others are more distinct; and staff will try to put them together.

Chairman Carlson advised the CIP was discussed at the last workshop and is included under #1; the concept is to combine community and capital improvements, which would be an overall plan that would become the financial document that would support the Comprehensive Plan and Strategic Plan and provide backup required to formulate budget strategies and funding forecasts need to make the CIP process more meaningful. She stated there needs to be some means to understand what the forecast is for funding a particular capital improvement or community improvement. She stated the Board talked about impact fees and concurrency under #2; and #3 is encourage community collaboration in visioning and development decisions. She noted they are doing a good job working through that and will be sending out the quality of life measurements. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board has the draft letter to discuss today. Chairman Carlson inquired if there are any problems with the letter; with Commissioner Scarborough responding, the letter does not share the report that has the actual data; it is not relevant to have air quality in Brevard County not compared with Florida and the United States; and there may be people who know other statistical measures from different sources they can suggest be used for those measurements that would assist the Board. He stated that is the purpose of the letter, and not to tell them what the Board is doing. He suggested telling the public the statistical data the Board has is incomplete or not as useful as it might be, and ask if they have State and National data and other statistical data to share that could be used. Chairman Carlson inquired if the letter should contain a better descriptor of what the Board is interested in obtaining; with Commissioner Scarborough responding he said a number of times that the report is a failure because the data does not go across the board; NA is typed repetitively in it; there are a lot of good people in the community who can tell the Board where the data is and how to get it so the report can be better; and that is what the letter should ask for. He stated it needs to say we have a problem, we think we are failing, and can you help us out in defining the measures. Commissioner Higgs stated it should not say the County is failing; it is trying to set benchmarks that it can use; it started with those and agree they are not as useful as they thought they would be; and they are hoping people can come up with new ones. Chairman Carlson inquired if the Board wants to focus on certain measurable goals instead of all 63; with Commissioner Higgs responding Jacksonville has 74; Oregon has 259; and Seattle has 40; so there are many different indicators.

Commissioner Scarborough advised he received a letter from Doug Sphar dealing with incomes in Brevard County, the median mode, etc.; there may be people who want to discuss that; and he does not know what is out there, but if the Board does not offer them the opportunity, it would not have it. Chairman Carlson stated if the Board is soliciting comments, perhaps it should write some questions for them to fill in the blanks to get some of that insight. Commissioner Scarborough suggested asking if the County is using the right measures from the groups perspectives, and is there different statistical data that would better represent the measures.

Chairman Carlson instructed staff to amend the cover letter request input from the various groups.

Commissioner O'Brien indicated the letter is too long. Chairman Carlson stated it needs to be more succinct and be on one page as those are very busy people, so staff will try to do it. Commissioner Higgs suggested advising the groups the data it thought was available is not there, making what it has not very meaningful, and if they can come up with others to get comparative data. Chairman Carlson stated the recipients of the letter need to know the Board is also trying to acknowledge trends that are occurring, so it knows how to adapt its thinking and what it needs to do.

Chairman Carlson advised #4 is to promote improvements in local development patterns through comprehensive land use planning, creative and flexible zoning ordinances, mixed land uses, and other innovative approaches. She noted it talks about overlay districts and mixed uses; and inquired if there are any comments from the Board.

Commissioner Higgs inquired if there are no recommendations, will the County continue with what it has been doing and how it has been doing it; with Chairman Carlson responding yes.

Chairman Carlson advised one thing on her list that applies is the critical habitat survey, which was rolled into the water and urban boundaries issues.

Commissioner Higgs stated the citizens academies and public information is a real priority issue that the Board needs to concentrate on to educate the public on land uses and other issues. She stated they have tried television, but nothing compares to the ability for people to understand when they are in a series of meetings with staff sharing information about issues in the County. She stated that is a human outreach project. Mr. Jenkins stated staff is moving ahead with that and he has two Assistant County Managers and a Special Projects Coordinator working to put it together. Chairman Carlson inquired what is the end result; with Ms. Busacca responding they have developed a ten-week class; they asked for ideas and now are asking for those to be fine-tuned by the directors; and they hope it will be creative and fun for the individuals who attend. She stated after that is worked out, they will be ready to move forward and start the first class. Chairman Carlson stated she thought it was a method to inform a group of citizens who wanted to become more informed on a particular issue and did not know staff would create an academy. Mr. Jenkins advised other communities have done something similar, so they have not reinvented the wheel, but picked up some good ideas. Chairman Carlson inquired about the curriculum; with Ms. Busacca responding to introduce people to how the County works, to educate people who may later want to become involved in boards, committees, etc., how county government fits in with State and federal governments, and something of a general nature. Chairman Carlson inquired if staff will be working with the community college; with Ms. Busacca responding staff thought about that, and what they are hoping is to elevate it to the point where individuals after graduating will come to the Board to receive a certificate. She stated staff will have a basic outline ready in several weeks and will provide it to the Board; the special projects coordinator has looked at over 100 websites of other citizen academies throughout the United States; and there are several in Florida that have been very successful, so staff has patterned its program after those. Commissioner Higgs stated there are no local government classes that deal with the school boards, municipalities, and counties; they talk about Congress, the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches, yet local government is directly connected with the people and is not involved in the academic setting. Mr. Jenkins advised they are investigating the possibility of utilizing Space Coast Government Television to reach more people as well.

Chairman Carlson advised the citizens academy was under #3; and #4 again is to promote improvements in local development patterns through comprehensive land use planning, creative and flexible zoning ordinances, mixed land uses, and other innovative approaches.

Chairman Carlson advised #5 is to encourage the incorporation of regional disaster mitigation and prevention into long-term sustainable development. She noted it was touched on with the Project Impact Program.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired if the County could effectively respond to something like the hurricane that hit Homestead or the earthquake that hit India; with Chairman Carlson responding the County will have responses from all over if something like that happens because there are a lot of backups. Mr. Jenkins stated there would be joint efforts with the federal and State agencies as well as cities, so it would be a collective effort on the part of many. Chairman Carlson advised Bob Lay goes through mock disaster drills which is as much as can be done to get ready for hurricanes, terrorism, etc. She stated they had a policy board meeting yesterday and called everybody together to make sure there was a meeting of the minds in terms of coordination; and everything seems to be going smoothly, but no one knows until it happens, which is when it will be tested.

Chairman Carlson advised #6 is to provide a variety of transportation choices to increase transportation safety, reduce traffic congestion, and improve air quality; and inquired if there were any comments. No comments were heard.

Chairman Carlson advised #7 is to encourage greenways and trails to provide bicycle/pedestrian transportation routes and natural resource connections between communities. She stated one item on her list was to support finding a revenue source to fund a master plan when it comes up to the MPO. She stated improving connectivity between residential and multifamily developments will help to establish a sense of community, preserve open space, and reduce road trips. She stated it has been proven in many communities that areas in need of redevelopment can be brought back to life when there is connectivity to a trail system; Orange County has shown that greenways which pass by residential neighborhoods have increased the value of property; and that has been proven on the real estate market and all over the country where they have trail system.

Commissioner Higgs stated the connection of greenways is important to all of it working together in terms of value added to residential and commercial properties; she does not know how to make that a priority in today's discussion, but something the Board needs to continue to look at is getting those properties on line and connected so they are useful. Chairman Carlson stated they need ideas of integrating wildlife corridors in the trail plan; and that is part of the idea of greenways and trails.

Commissioner O'Brien stated back to #6, they have been trying to get sidewalks in a lot of areas and to go from the Port, through Cocoa Beach, down to Patrick Air Force Base; however, the cost has held them back from doing it. He stated people will not give the rights-of-way to put in sidewalks along Newfound Harbor Drive, which he has been trying to do for years. Chairman Carlson stated the County has the right-of-way, but because people have taken care of it and feel it is their property, they do not want anyone impinging on their rights; and it is fighting an uphill battle to get sidewalks in areas where the roads are overloaded with traffic and children.

Commissioner Higgs advised the Board talked about impact fees in commercial areas, but it has not talked about residential impact fees which could be used to fund those facilities; it has been a number of years since those fees have been changed; and the Board needs to reconsider residential impact fees and cost of living, and make that a priority in the next six months. She stated they should be kept separate from commercial impact fees, because it is a source of funding transportation-related projects such as retrofitting roads, sidewalks, etc.

Commissioner O'Brien stated with the growth in Brevard County, the impact fees collected should be sufficient; and he cannot agree that it should be changed just because the cost of living went up. Commissioner Higgs stated developments double the impact on facilities; what is being collected represents about 19% of the actual cost of services required; and if Brevard County is going to continue to grow, the Board needs to be realistic and fit it into the discussion of urban cores and how to encourage growth in other places. She stated the cost is more outside of urban cores; and not having impact fees to cover those costs is not right.

Commissioner Scarborough stated a problem he has with impact fees is they are not bondable because it is not a sure source of revenue; the urban core is not the answer because it could have such a density that it would require retrofitting, demolishing buildings, and acquiring properties to make two lanes into four lanes; and some times it is cheaper to let urban sprawl occur because a new road is cheaper than to retrofit a road in an older community. He stated Brevard County can buy a lot of things and do it soon and fast because in ten years it will be a much higher cost; there is so much happening and the price tag is going up; the Board is going to have to spend a lot more money; and the sooner people are willing to spend a lot more, the better it is going to be able to solve the problems. He stated most of the problems relate to money; and nobody wants to talk about the sales tax, which would allow the Board to have a good County in decades to come. Commissioner Higgs stated she does not think money is going to solve the consequences of growth; it will take planning and control; there is not enough money to decrease the impact of 16 lanes of I-4; and they cannot build out of the I-95 problems in South Florida because the money is not there. Commissioner Scarborough stated his point is to spend earlier when the price tag is substantially less than spending later; and with the other elements, there is opportunity to control growth. He stated if there is no rule that the Board can create or changes to the Comprehensive Plan that will bring it all together, it is going to continue to degrade the quality of life; more people do not make it more enjoyable to live, and makes it more complex; and if they do not have a way to get money from the people, then they will have deterioration of the quality of life. Commissioner Higgs stated the choices can be made now in terms of finances and how to change the Comprehensive Plan; and the Board has an opportunity now, but the window is closing quickly. Commissioner Scarborough stated they alone will not solve the problems; and they may lessen the problems, but they will not, in the end, stop the inevitable.

Chairman Carlson advised as the County grows, there will be tools that are being researched and studied; it may not be that far down the path where they will have virtual cities where they can actually do complex calculations to determine what makes a city reasonable to live in; and there is a lot of research going on through the Urban Land Institute where they are trying to identify answers to some of the problems the Board is grappling with. She stated the Board cannot say no to growth; it is going to happen no matter what it does, unless there is a recession or depression; and with urban boundaries, there are problems, as Oregon found out. She stated money is not the entire answer; good planning is also froth with problems; but the Board will have to do the best it can, and hopefully there will be tools that will keep people working in their homes, taking them off the streets, and changing priorities. She stated things will shift, but for now the Board has to do what it can do.

Commissioner Scarborough advised Bob Kamm shared with him that not only are more people moving to Florida, they are traveling more every year; people do not want to live in downtown Orlando, but they want to live near it; the bullet train will not work because there are retirees who want to travel how and where they please; and they cannot be put on a bus and taken to work and home every evening. Commissioner Higgs stated Florida is a transient State of people coming and going, not only retirees. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board may feel it is solving the problems, but it is not. Chairman Carlson stated the Board is aware of the problems and will work on educating people so they understand the problems.

Commissioner Higgs inquired about residential impact fees, and if the Board is interested in considering it. Commissioner Scarborough stated it does not have bonding capacity, but it is worth undertaking. Commissioner Higgs stated $3 million a year in residential impact fees is significant. Chairman Carlson inquired why is it not bondable; with Commissioner Scarborough responding because it is not stable. He stated unless the Board is talking about resurfacing a road, any other transportation type projects would need to be bonded because it cannot do a mile a year; and impact fees are to pay for future growth and not past problems. Commissioner Higgs stated it can be used to supplement gas tax revenue to expand sidewalks and intersections. Commissioner Scarborough stated if it is supposed to answer the increase demand of growth, it would be inappropriate to take it and say the growth impact occurred 40 miles away. Commissioner Higgs stated if the impact fee areas were reduced to three or five, it may be able to cover 15 or 20 miles with impact fees. Chairman Carlson inquired if Commissioner Higgs wants to make a motion to do something with impact fees now or wait.

Motion by Commissioner Higgs, seconded by Commissioner Colon, to direct staff to agenda the updating of residential impact fees separate from the discussion of commercial impact fees.

Commissioner O'Brien stated he cannot support the motion; last year the Legislature passed laws on new construction that increased the cost of a house close to $5,000; now the Board is talking about impact fees on a home; and it will disenfranchise a lot of people who may be able to afford a home this year, but would not be able to afford it if the impact fee is increased. He stated it would create a county where the rich have everything and the poor have nothing; and it will be the fault of the Board for adding so much tax to build a house that they cannot afford to buy one. He stated he has a son who hopes to buy a house; but if the Board keeps raising the bar, he will never get there and will never have the same choices he had at his son's age.

Commissioner Colon inquired if the residential impact fee will include the cost of living increase. Commissioner Higgs advised the cost of living has increased since 1988 when the residential impact fee was implemented; and the Board would never implement the full cost of impacts, but a number it could start with would be equal to the cost of living figure.

Chairman Carlson called for a vote on the motion. Motion carried and ordered; Commissioners Scarborough and O'Brien voted nay.

Chairman Carlson advised #8 is to provide housing and services that meet the needs of Brevard County's youth and elderly. She stated there is a Commission on Aging, and the Elder-ready Community Survey has been completed. She inquired if the Board has seen the survey; with Assistant County Manager Don Lusk responding the survey was part of the overall planning process; it has been completed and is being reviewed by the Department of Elder Affairs in Tallahassee; and it has not been released to the Board. Chairman Carlson requested the survey come to the Board when the process is finished.

Chairman Carlson advised #9 is to make development decisions fair, predictable, and cost effective. She stated the County has the one-stop permitting process that has worked well.

Commissioner Colon advised she wants feedback from staff on reducing conditional uses and replacing them with permitted uses with conditions. Mel Scott advised the Board has wrestled with conditional uses for many years; the conditional use permit for additional building height has been frustrated by the courts not allowing the Board to deny it; and staff proposes to bring to the Board one at a time to move away from the conditional use permit process and into the Zoning Code that is dominated with permitted with conditions. He stated that is the philosophical shift; and if they move slowly they can evaluate the effectiveness of those conditions being acceptable once they are constructed in the community.

Motion by Commissioner Colon, to direct staff to give the Board feedback on conditional use permits being replaced with permitted uses with conditions.

Mr. Scott advised if the Board gives staff direction to move that way, they will bring back a couple of changes a quarter so it is manageable; the Board would first see them as permission to advertise, and can discuss the concepts and give staff direction regarding what conditions to include in the proposed ordinance; and staff will proceed that way, if it is the pleasure of the Board. Chairman Carlson inquired if the Board wants to put that in the form of a motion.

Motion by Commissioner Colon, seconded by Commissioner Higgs, to direct staff to proceed with preparing proposed ordinances to reduce conditional use permits and replace them with permitted uses with conditions. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

Chairman Carlson advised #10 is to strengthen partnerships with other organizations working towards similar goals. She stated on her list was the community cultural plan that the Brevard Cultural Alliance is in the process of doing; and the Board talked about natural resources providing a foundation for quality growth. She stated the quality of life in Brevard County depends greatly on a good foundation and cultural resources; the community cultural plan would be an interesting assessment and will bring back good information; and she hopes the Board will think seriously about the outcomes and the potential funding sources that are provided in the document when it comes forward. She stated it will be included in the TDC workshop.

Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board is also going to have regional MPO discussions. Chairman Carlson advised the first meeting is tomorrow. Commissioner Higgs stated the Board is also continuing the regional partnership with East Central Florida Regional Planning Council.

Chairman Carlson advised #11 is to work to establish indicators and benchmarks to measure progress toward the achievement of quality growth and best practices. She stated the Board is moving towards with its strategic planning, visioning, and quality of life measurements; and the first step is to take that out to the community, talk to the groups, and see what they think in terms of what measurements should be considered and what would be the most effective use of time in terms of strategic planning.

Additional Measures

Chairman Carlson advised there are additional measures that are regarded as best practices and utilized in other communities; the Board talked about urban growth boundaries, pay as you go, community collaboration, local development patterns, disaster mitigation, transportation, greenways, youth and elderly services, partnerships, and indicators and benchmarks; and inquired if it is an addendum to the list.

Assistant County Manager Peggy Busacca advised staff had hoped the Board would discuss some of those and give it priorities; and the Board has done that.

Commissioner Higgs inquired where is the County in terms of joint planning with municipalities; with Planning and Zoning Director Mel Scott responding they are having discussions with Melbourne and Titusville, and began preliminary discussions with Palm Bay; because of the size of Palm Bay, they are going to approach it in four quadrants; and they are moving along and having a lot of meetings.

County Manager Tom Jenkins advised the agreement with Rockledge is completed and staff is in the tail end of discussions with the City of Melbourne. Mr. Scott stated they are going over the fine points with Melbourne, and a planner is visiting with Titusville this afternoon.

Chairman Carlson advised that concludes what the Board intended to review; the question she has is after all the reports are back, will the Board have another discussion to decide what it is going to do. She stated how those are going to blend with the overall strategy is the most important outcome for all the things discussed today.

Commissioner Higgs advised some time ago the Board discussed the representative from the Farm Bureau and Cattlemen and preservation of agricultural lands; and inquired if anything has come from the discussions with staff; with Ms. Busacca responding no, staff has spoken with the agricultural community, told them the County's interest, and it was indicated they would get back with the County; however, that has not happened. She stated she would be delighted to contact them again and see how they are doing on it. Commissioner Higgs stated they may want to think about those issues for fear the Board may come up with its own.

Chairman Carlson inquired if it would be productive or effective to have her as the Chairman go with staff or have staff list some of the main issues that she could talk about with some of the large landowners such as A. Duda & Sons. She stated the agricultural people need to participate in this whole process because Brevard County may lose them; and no one is interested in that happening. She stated it is an important aspect of the community that needs to be preserved.

Motion by Commissioner Scarborough, seconded by Commissioner Colon, to authorize the Chairman to get involved with discussions on preservation of agricultural lands with the appropriate landowners. Motion carried and ordered unanimously.

Upon motion and vote, the meeting adjourned at 2:10 p.m.

ATTEST: _________________________________
SUE CARLSON, CHAIRMAN
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA
___________________
SCOTT ELLIS, CLERK

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