MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS

BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA

July 19, 1995

The Board of County Commissioner of Brevard County, Florida, met in workshop session on July 19, 1995, at 9:07 a.m. in the Government Center Multi-purpose Room, Building C, 2725 St. Johns Street, Melbourne, Florida. Present were: Chairman Nancy Higgs, Commissioners Truman Scarborough, Randy O'Brien, Mark Cook, and Scott Ellis, County Manager Tom Jenkins and Assistant County Attorney Katherine Harasz. Absent was: *County Attorney Scott Knox.

County Manager Tom Jenkins advised Ms. Wall confirmed with Joe Milliken of the Tax Collector's Office that Brevard County does not send out renewal notices until September 1, although the City of West Melbourne sends their notices out on August 1; so the Board's original action to table may stand if the Board desires.

County Manager Tom Jenkins stated the format of the budget has changed; and this is part of the continuing effort to make the document easier to understand. He stated the basic concept being used is program budgeting; projected outcomes have been identified for each of the programs; and it is easy to tell the various programs and services the County government offers, what is paid for and what is achieved with the programs. He stated at the prior budget workshop, staff was directed to come back with a budget that accomplishes a 5% reduction in the tax rate; and that has been done with an aggregate reduction of 5% and a General Fund reduction of slightly in excess of 6%. He stated in doing so there has been an attempt to minimize any service reductions or disruptions to the public; in most cases it has been possible to do that; and the only area that has not occurred is in dealing with outside agencies. He stated the budget reflects the continuing efforts to streamline County government, reduce costs, and consolidate functions; and the budget eliminates a net total of 43 full-time positions. He stated the Board was told previously it was 30 positions; but as he fine-tuned the numbers, it turned out to be 43 full-time positions net. He stated he has received requests for funding, and has advised in a cutback mode, the County cannot afford the requests; and in the budget there are some requests that are unfunded.

Budget Director Kathy Wall stated the Fiscal Year 1996 recommended budget is the County's first program and performance based budget; it identifies program costs and outcomes for each of the County's programs; and there has been a change in the format and presentation of the budget. She stated the Community Services Group is first on Page J-1. She stated budget development started in March, 1995; agencies were requested to develop their budgets based on a target budget; the target budget was defined as the agency's current year's projected expenditures, plus any compensation and benefit increases approved by the Board this fiscal year, plus one time new capital outlay and one time expenditures; and any increases above this total were considered a program change. She stated the requests from the departments were combined into the requested

budget for FY 96; the requested budget was then submitted to the County Manager for review in late May and early June, 1995; and from those deliberations came the recommended budget. She stated the recommended budget represents a 5% reduction in the County's aggregate millage and includes the department's target budget along with some funded program changes; and any requests which could not be funded remain unfunded as program changes, and are included in the document. She stated the budget document is arranged by County groups in the same manner as the County government is organized; and each group contains a mission statement along with the departments within each group and a consolidated financial and budgetary information guide. She stated it includes the actual 93-94 revenues and expenditures, the amended budget for FY 1994-95, as amended June 15, 1995, the departments' requested budgets for FY 95-96, and the County Manager's recommendation. She explained the format for each department's budget.

Commissioner O'Brien stated on page J-3 it lists department outcomes, and one is reduce volunteer burnout by 5% and increase average volunteer delivery by 15%. He inquired if this is something that staff wants to get or already has. Mr. Jenkins advised it is a goal for next year to get more volunteers and not work the ones the County has so hard. Assistant County Manager for Community Services Joan Madden stated the goal is to have more volunteers each working less time. Commissioner O'Brien inquired what are FTE's; with Mr. Jenkins responding full-time equivalents.

Ms. Wall resumed her explanation of the format. She noted there were some programs which staff could not determine cost for FY 1994-95 because the accounting records were included within other programs; so they have been adjusted for next year in order to provide a better comparison in the following years. She stated after each program profile there will be a listing of funded and unfunded program changes, a travel summary, capital outlay summary, and capital improvements summary.

Commissioner Cook inquired if travel will be listed for those departments that use it; with Mr. Jenkins responding yes.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired if travel will be listed for those departments that use it; with Mr. Jenkins responding yes.

Commissioner O'Brien stated on page J-8, the requested budget was $71,024; the recommended budget was the same; that is employee pay; and inquired if it includes everything; with Mr. Jenkins responding yes. Commissioner O'Brien inquired if it allows for a 3% or 4% increase if the Board decides to do that. Mr. Jenkins responded no, the salary increases for next year are not programmed into the individual budgets. He advised they are being handled differently this year; and there has been discussion about a one-time allotment.

Ms. Wall stated the budget document was designed so that all the information concerning any particular budget would be included behind the department. She stated the recommended budget submitted to the Board on July 11, 1995 is balanced; the revenues and expenditures are equal; any changes that are made to the recommended budget in the workshops will be tallied to provide a preliminary figure; and written reconciliation of what transpired during the workshops will be provided.

Chairman Higgs stated there are four workshops scheduled; then there is the millage hearing on August 2, 1995 to set the preliminary millage; and from that point on, the Board can only go back, not forward, and notices go out on August 24, 1995. She stated then there will be two budget hearings in September; with Ms. Wall advising they will be on September 6 and 20, 1995. Mr. Jenkins clarified after the millage is set on August 2, 1995, the Board can lower the millage but it cannot increase the millage without renotification of all taxpayers in the County, which is expensive. Commissioner Scarborough noted any surprises are expensive; and related a past experience when revenue was overestimated.

Community Services Group

Assistant County Manager for Community Services Joan Madden advised Community Services is responsible for planning, directing and implementing County policy and managing the activities and resources associated with all the programs that are community-based. She stated the Community Services Group is comprised of six departments, Court Alternatives, Housing and Human Services, Library Services, Parks and Recreation, Public Safety, and Transit Services; it also has responsibility for the Office of Tourism Development and the Law Library; and the total projected budget for FY 1995-96 is $86,374,139 which is a reduction from the amended budget for the current fiscal year of $3,040,838. She noted grant funds make up approximately 27% of the Community Services revenues. She stated Court Alternatives is proposing a $5 increase in cost of supervision from $30 to $45 which results in additional revenue of $114,560 projected, and decreases the transfer from the General Fund. She stated additionally the Community Services Group has a net reduction of 20 full-time equivalents; it has converted three full-time positions to six part-time positions at Space Coast Area Transit which provides greater flexibility in scheduling and delivering transit services as well as having a positive effect on the budget.

*County Attorney Scott Knox's presence and Assistant County Attorney Harasz' absence was noted at this time.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired what is the percentage of grant funds; with Ms. Madden responding 27% of the revenues, but not the total budget. Commissioner O'Brien inquired what is the total budget; with Ms. Madden reiterating $86,374,139. Commissioner O'Brien inquired what percentage is it of the total budget; with Ms. Madden responding that number has not been figured, but it is probably 15% of the total budget. Ms. Madden stated each of the departments will present individually and highlight their specific budget program changes, the reason for decreases and increases, and those items which are recommended for funding. Ms. Wall advised grant funds equal 18% of the total budget for Community Services.

Court Alternatives

Court Alternatives Director Pat Bean stated the FY 1996 budget represents the continuing commitment to the enhancement of community safety by providing correctional services in the most cost effective manner; and those programs providing correctional services are Misdemeanor Probation, Drug Court, Pretrial Release, Alternative Community Service, Pretrial Diversion, and Alternative Dispute Resolution or Mediation. She stated the budget includes a 6% reduction in operating expenses and a 16% reduction of the General Fund transfer; and it also represents accountability. She stated 62% of the total budget comes from client generated fees for cost of supervision; and 50% of the total budget is also generated by grant funds. She stated the community wants problems solved; the Department has struggled to develop new ways of looking at old problems toward the goal of control over the community safety; and the Department offers mediation services, alternative resolution training, and invests in prevention through the diversion programs as well as the life skill classes. She stated the Department surveys the customers in an effort to empower the community; and the answer to crime is in the high chair, and not in the electric chair. She stated between the high chair and the electric chair, there are many effective programs involving appropriate sanctions, restitution and other punishment; and even though these are tough economic times, credible and successful correctional programs can be provided.

Chairman Higgs inquired if there was a change in the programs for mediation at the State level, if not the County level; with Ms. Bean responding she is not aware of a change, although the County has expanded mediation through the Citizen Dispute Program. Chairman Higgs inquired if they are a family court mediation prior to any custody or final dissolution of marriage; with Ms. Bean responding prior to custody or final dissolution of marriage, it is necessary to attend mediation. Chairman Higgs inquired if the County's people do that; with Ms. Bean responding the County does not do any kind of family mediation.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired what are full-time equivalent personnel. Ms. Wall explained one full-time equivalent equals 2,080 hours; and personnel hours are being converted into how many hours are actually worked by employees. Commissioner O'Brien noted there are 51 full-time employees; and inquired what is a full-time equivalent. Mr. Jenkins advised two part-time employees would equal one full-time equivalent. Discussion ensued on the issue of full-time equivalents. Ms. Wall noted there are three people who are internal support people. Ms. Madden advised they may include any accounting that is done, clerical support, etc. Commissioner O'Brien stated that is not part of this budget; with Ms. Wall advising it is part of this budget. Mr. Jenkins stated in order to equally distribute the Director's time and cost, she is spread throughout the different programs; the same would apply to an accountant or secretary; and it gives a true accounting of what each program is actually costing. Ms. Bean explained how full-time equivalents are used in her Department. Commissioner O'Brien stated there are more equivalents than there are people working there; with Mr. Jenkins explaining how the three positions are divided between six programs.

Chairman Higgs stated an additional person has been added in this budget; with Ms. Bean responding she is requesting one additional position, which is a grant funded position for Supervisor of Drug Court. Chairman Higgs inquired if it is totally grant funded with no General Fund money; with Ms. Bean responding the total grant has some matching dollars which come from the fees generated by the clients. Chairman Higgs stated one of her concerns has been to use part-time instead of full-time people whenever possible; and this is only one part-time position. She inquired if the Board funds the additional position is there any way to go to part-time. Ms. Bean advised as Supervisor of Drug Court, it would be difficult for that person to work part-time, but staff can take a look at that. Ms. Madden stated if the Board is going to look at splitting a position, her preference would be to look at a different position than a supervisor as it is imperative for a supervisor to have overall oversight. Chairman Higgs stated she understands that; but when there are 51 employees and only one part-time, she senses a lack of commitment to using part-time employees. She stated there are a number of people in the community interested in professional part-time work; and it is cost effective for the County because of the decrease in benefits that are used. She noted benefits cost 34%; with Ms. Wall advising it is almost 40% per employee. Chairman Higgs stated if the County can move to part-time, she would like to see that considered.

Commissioner O'Brien stated compensation is $1,859,000 for 106 full-time people. Mr. Jenkins stated there are 55 people in the Department; of those 55, 51 are specifically assigned to individual programs; there are three support positions, the Director, the secretary, and the Volunteer Coordinator; they work in all the various programs; and each program carries its fair share of that support function. He stated the total is 54 full-timers and one part-timer, but three of the full-timers are distributed across all the programs. Chairman Higgs stated the overhead of the Department carries the three employees. Mr. Jenkins stated the cost is distributed among all the Departments. Commissioner O'Brien stated the average compensation and benefits combined is $34,000 per person. Mr. Jenkins stated the bulk of the Department includes probation officers, release investigators, and diversion counselors. Ms. Madden noted 83% of the staff of Alternative Community Services is volunteer; and explained the function of the Volunteer Coordinator. Ms. Bean stated approximately 45 volunteers are used; currently there is a volunteer who is working 30 hours a week; and the volunteers are very committed.

Chairman Higgs inquired if the Board wishes to reach a consensus on the part-time employee issue; with Commissioner Scarborough advising he does not want to get into particulars yet, and wants to see the big picture first. Chairman Higgs stated the Board will be at the same position it was last year at the end of the workshops. Commissioner Scarborough stated it is best to just talk it out. Chairman Higgs stated she does not want to get to the first millage hearing to discuss it. Commissioner Scarborough stated he understands Chairman Higgs wants enough time for the Commission to talk about it without having to listen to the public first; but it would be nice to get all the input from all the departments to have it all together first before coming together as a group. He stated if there is something Chairman Higgs wants to increase or decrease, he has not problem, but does not want to analyze this in bits and pieces, but to take the whole concept at once. He noted last time the Board had some information on revenue; some of the revenue sources are not known until December; the State gives some figures; the County has other figures; and the Board has no revenue figures now. He stated he is not prepared to talk about the budget by starting with one department; and he likes to look at revenue coming in and expenditures going out, and the big picture. Chairman Higgs stated from a policy standpoint, she wants to see the County moving toward a goal of 10% part-time or something that gets the County moving; but she does not want staff to work on something if there is no Board support. Commissioner Cook stated he concurs the County needs to move forward toward part-time employees because of the cost of benefits.

Commissioner Ellis stated it would be beneficial for the Board to have a list of any and all new positions and any and all old positions that are currently vacant to analyze those for potentially moving to part-time positions. Chairman Higgs stated she does not want to dictate which positions become part-time; she does not know the functions of the people; but from a policy standpoint, she would like to hear consensus that this is a position the Board would like to move toward. Commissioner Scarborough stated he agrees with Commissioner Ellis; what he is looking for is the information he does not have; and at this time it is not a matter of making decisions, but a matter of requesting more information from staff. Commissioner Cook stated it is just a general policy statement saying the Board would like to move toward more part-time positions where it is practical to do that because of the savings in cost to the County. Commissioner Scarborough stated if he had additional information, he could better direct staff in that policy. Commissioner Cook stated he would like to know how many part-time positions there are currently excluding seasonal positions. Ms. Wall advised that information is included. Commissioner Ellis stated he does not want to move the full-time people to part-time; but he would like a list of what is vacant. Ms. Wall stated there are 334 part-time positions. Commissioner Cook inquired if that includes seasonal; with Ms. Wall responding yes. Commissioner Cook stated that skews the numbers because Parks and Recreation uses a lot of part-time employees. Ms. Wall advised a lot of those are temporary employees; and the figures do not include temporary employees. Mr. Jenkins stated more than 10% of the current positions are part-time; and inquired if the Board wants to set a goal. Chairman Higgs stated increasing the utilization of part-time people by 5% would be appropriate for the Board to consider. Mr. Jenkins stated it is going to be difficult for the Board to try and decide what positions should be part-time; but staff can be given the goal to come back with 5% more part-time positions. Commissioner Ellis inquired where do the temporaries appear in the budget; with Ms. Wall responding they are not counted as a budgeted position; they are counted in compensation and benefits, but not as a funded position. Chairman Higgs stated the Board needs to know how many temporaries there are. Discussion ensued on the issue. Commissioner Ellis noted a benefit of permanent part-time is it gives a labor pool to select from for full-time. Mr. Jenkins inquired if the Board is suggesting there can be two part-time for one equivalent full-time; with Chairman Higgs responding affirmatively. Mr. Jenkins stated the benefit saved is health insurance because part-time employees are not eligible for health insurance; so the Board is taking an employee and telling him he does not get health insurance. Chairman Higgs stated there are a number of people in the community looking for part-time work who have the availability of health care benefits; she is not trying to not provide what are reasonable benefits; but there are a lot of people who are covered by other mechanisms. Commissioner Ellis stated he brought that up before and talked to Mr. Abbate; and there are people in the County who may be willing to take a cash settlement of 30% to 40% and not have insurance because they have other coverage. Chairman Higgs stated she would be willing to entertain something like that. Commissioner Scarborough stated that is something the Board should look at. Commissioner Ellis stated it should be a savings; with Mr. Jenkins responding it is pretty much break even. Chairman Higgs requested staff provide the numbers. Commissioner Cook stated the incentive should be some savings or it would defeat the purpose; part-time allows people to get into the system easier; and it may be helping people get first jobs or get jobs to springboard to another position. Commissioner Ellis stated it gives the County a better method to evaluate their work to see it they should be moved into full-time. Chairman Higgs stated it would be nice for the legislature to

exempt the retirement. Commissioner Cook inquired if anyone has ever retired part-time from the County; with Chairman Higgs responding no one has ever retired part-time from the County and drawn on the Florida Retirement System. Chairman Higgs stated the Board presented the facts to the delegation; and she would like to talk to them again because the County is subsidizing the Retirement system. Commissioner O'Brien suggested keeping the money in the County in a special fund. Chairman Higgs advised that cannot be done. Commissioner Cook stated the County is paying for benefits which no one will ever get. Mr. Jenkins stated that is how the system is kept solvent. Commissioner O'Brien inquired what will happen if the County does not pay. Chairman Higgs stated that could jeopardize the people who are in the retirement system who will be recipients of those benefits. Commissioner O'Brien stated the County could specify whose retirements it is paying for, and escrow the money for the part-timers. Chairman Higgs stated the County is required to pay it. Commissioner Ellis inquired how can the County fight it; and stated it would be necessary to have the Statute declared unconstitutional. Mr. Jenkins stated the Board would not want to direct staff to do something illegal. Commissioner O'Brien stated in some cases he would. Chairman Higgs stated if the Board goes to the Delegation again, it will be the third attempt.

Health and Human Services

Health and Human Services Director Bernice Jackson stated over the past fiscal year existing resources enhanced programs that lessened the initial human and social problems; and utilizing a managed health care and intensive case management along with skills training allowed removal of individuals from entitlement programs. She stated this year's proposed budget request is a community driven comprehensive approach which speaks to a more stringent human needs plan of action to revitalize communities; a lot of the grant money from the federal government is for job opportunities and training; and staff is collaborating with local organizations to make that happen. She stated through those partnerships with the federal and local governments, private businesses, community organizations, and residents, the proposed budget of $16,549,000 will allow service reductions to citizens to be minimized, reduce the General transfer funds request by 5%, focus attention on community-based programming for all citizens, and allow shifting of programming from process and paperwork to people and product. She stated it will allow staff to continue to place like services and program functions together; and three positions have been eliminated. She stated this is all being done through a program listing of ten programs.

Commissioner Cook stated how many out-of-County youth are serviced at Country Acres; with Jasper Trigg responding approximately 15%. Mr. Jenkins stated staff is looking at alternatives for Country Acres, but did not have enough time to do that in this year's budget; and staff will be coming to the Board in the next several month with alternatives for consideration.

Commissioner Ellis inquired if anyone else in the County provides the same service; with Assistant County Manager for Community Services Joan Madden responding Hacienda Girls Ranch which is a private not-for-profit group for females only provides foster care service; the Haven in Satellite Beach provides foster care service for mostly AIDS-related children under the age of six; but County

Acres is the only co-ed facility, and there is not other boys' residential program. Mr. Jenkins stated there is the Children Homes Society; with Chairman Higgs advising they closed their facility. Commissioner O'Brien stated 15% are from out of the County; but they are there to keep them away from their abusive parents; and the County has children in out-of-County facilities. Commissioner Cook stated that came up the last time the Board discussed this, and it should be verified. Ms. Madden stated that is being verified. Commissioner Cook stated the Board needs to see if there are better alternatives; this year there is probably not enough time to implement anything without creating destruction; but the board needs to look at this. Ms. Madden stated as the staff went through the budget with the County Manager, it pledged to look at alternate ways to deliver the services, not necessarily to not deliver the service, but different ways to implement. She stated they did not get those numbers together in time for September; but a clear commitment has been made. Commissioner Ellis inquired what would happen if the County did not close Country Acres; with Ms. Madden responding it would be a major problem for HRS which has the mandate to place children in foster care of shelter care; Country Acres is split between foster and shelter care; and it is possible to take a child out of an abused home tonight, and have some place to keep him temporarily until a placement is found. She stated they could be placed in individual foster care homes; she does not know the numbers in the County that are available; and another option would be to place them in a group foster care out of the County with an associated cost. Commissioner Ellis inquired if the County could request more money from HRS; with Ms. Madden responding the County is receiving the maximum amount that HRS pays per day for foster care; it covers approximately 49% of the budget; and notice was received last week that the Legislature has decreased all contracts by at lease 3%. Chairman Higgs stated the Hacienda Girls Ranch receives the same HRS dollars and they make it up through private donations. Ms. Madden stated they are sponsored and receive significant dollars from Florida Federation of Womens' Clubs; and she does not know what their daily rate is. Commissioner Scarborough stated there is a reduction of a half million dollars in mandated programs. Mr. Jenkins stated the County tried to come up with a more realistic number of what it is spending; in the past the County got a number from the State of what it thought the County would spend; and typically that number has been higher than what the County actually spent. Ms. Madden stated the other impact on this has been managed health care. Commissioner Scarborough stated he would like to see the figures for each of the programs because he does not understand. Ms. Madden reiterated managed health care has had a significant impact nationwide. Mr. Jenkins stated staff can provide the Medicaid figures for the las five years; with Commissioner Scarborough responding he would like to see all the mandated programs.

Commissioner O'Brien inquired if intergovernmental means grants; with Ms. Madden responding primarily. Commissioner O'Brien stated grants was only $3 million for 1993-94; and now the County is getting $9 million. Ms. Madden advised that was a reorganization; all housing programs moved over; and that is all grant related. Commissioner O'Brien stated housing and CDBG were put together. He stated there are transfers of General Revenue which seem to be the same every year; but the budget has increased by $5 million across two years for Housing and Human Services. Ms. Madden stated there probably would not be any reduction in the General Fund transfer because those programs covered by the General Fund have never been changed; and what has changed is the move of housing programs in; so the jump in the budget is reflected by the grant dollars coming

in. Mr. Jenkins stated over the past four years, five to ten positions from Human Services have been eliminated by various consolidation of services; in addition to that, disbursement of emergency assistance is being contracted out to Salvation Army; and in the old days emergency assistance was provided by County offices.

Commissioner Ellis stated there were people funded by the General fund on the housing side; with Mr. Jenkins advising staff worked hard to reduce that. Commissioner Ellis stated on page 38 it shows ten people almost all funded by the General Fund, and the housing side shows nine people who are almost all grant funded; and inquired if it used to be the other way around that most of the CDBG people were grant funded. Mr. Jenkins advised they still are. Commissioner Ellis inquired where is CDBG in this budget; with Ms. Jackson responding in the housing office. Ms. Wall stated they start on Page J-46, J-50 and J-54. Commissioner Ellis stated the budget shows full-time equivalents but not full-time positions. Ms. Wall stated it is because the full-time positions cross between three programs. Mr. Jenkins stated that can be changed very easily by deleting "FTE" and inserting "FTP", but there would be no difference. Mr. Jenkins inquired who is included in the support function; with Ms. Jackson responding six people. Mr. Jenkins stated they are charged against all of the various Human Service programs; and currently Mr. Trigg is supervising the CDBG Program. Mr. Jenkins stated it is a deliberate effort on the part of staff to get the General Fund out of the Housing Program to the extent it could; CDBG funds were used to accomplish that; positions were eliminated, and some supervisory positions were reclassified.

Commissioner Ellis inquired if other things like emergency welfare services could be contracted through a charity. Mr. Jenkins stated emergency assistance is done through the Salvation Army, but it is still a service the County provides. Commissioner Ellis stated four services are listed on page 38; one is mandated, and three are not; and there are nine people charged to the General Fund. He stated Community Service Block Grant which is listed is not CDBG; with Ms. Madden advising that is emergency medical services, and is less than $2,000. Commissioner Ellis stated there are nine people listed and four services, and one or two of the services must consume their time; with Ms. Jackson responding all four services consume their time; and explained the various services. Commissioner Scarborough inquired why is cremation not used to save money; with Ms. Jackson responding it is allowable. Commissioner Cook inquired if CDBG target areas will be expanded; with Ms. Jackson responding affirmatively.

The meeting recessed at 10:10 a.m. and reconvened at 10:25 a.m.

Library Services

Library Services Director Kathryn Stewart stated Library Services submitted a budget which reduces property taxes by 5.3%; the proposed millage is .7531 mill which would reduce the annual tax bill of the average Brevard County resident by $1.86. Ms. Stewart stated the total budget shows an increase of $298,472 or 2.2%; and the major factors contributing to the increase are the cost of funding 1994-95 raises, $214,197 for support of County Finance, Human Resources and Purchasing, and the funded program changes of $236,766, including $202,746 for the Eau Gallie Library construction project. She stated steps have been taken to offset the increases; a total of four previously approved positions for the Cape Canaveral and Merritt Island expansions have been eliminated; other than for expansion, no new positions are requested in the budget; and the total position count shows a net decrease of 3%. She stated staff is 48% part-time; all equipment for individual libraries has been eliminated in the operating budget; and the only equipment budgeted is for the State system-wide computer equipment. She stated a portion of the reserve for capital outlay which was established by the Board on April 4, 1995, has been earmarked to fund the Eau Gallie project; and that reduces the reserve from $286,211 to $83,165. She stated the reserve for cash carry forward has not been increased and remains at $800,000 that was approved by the Board on April 4, 1995. She stated despite the current expansion program and the increased patron usage, the Library Services Department will continue its efforts to control expenses while providing an acceptable level of service. She stated the major goals for this fiscal year include the opening of the expanded facilities at North Brevard, Cape Canaveral and Merritt Island, and the full implementation of the Internet search capabilities for library patrons.

Commissioner Ellis inquired if the money for the Eau Gallie Library is being moved into the construction budget; with Ms. Stewart responding when the Board approved the feasibility study that was recommended.

Commissioner O'Brien stated full-time employees have been increased by three or four people and part-timers by one; with Ms. Stewart advising full-time was increase by bone and part-time was decreased by four. Commissioner O'Brien stated he was talking about 1993-94; it is up by three full-time and one part-time; and compensation and benefits has escalated by $504,000. Commissioner O'Brien noted that is for only four employees; with Commissioner Ellis advising that includes pay raises calculated into that for the whole system. Discussion ensued on how the budget for pay raises is proposed to be accomplished. Mr. Jenkins stated historically raises are given in the middle of the year, and they are funded for six months; when they have to be funded the next year, it is for twelve months; and the annualized cost of this year's raise appears in next year's budget. Commissioner Ellis stated that would not be $400,000; with Ms. Wall responding it is $276,000. Ms. Madden stated included is the additional staff projected for Cape Canaveral and Merritt Island, as well as provision for increased hours for North Brevard. Mr. Jenkins stated an employee has been transferred from Growth Management for use in reference management.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired how are salaries going to be handled. Mr. Jenkins explained how raises would be implemented wherein those employees who had met a reasonable level of performance would be rewarded by a one-time allotment, up to $600 per employee. He stated the departments are being challenged to find the money from within their budgets; cash forward has been taken out of the individual departmental budgets which previously was discretionary funding; so the targeted budgeted amounts have been negotiated based on what the departments have historically spent over the prior year and what they are projected to spend this year. He stated each department must be run like a business; and if they desire to be rewarded, savings must be generated for the raises. He stated departments can generate the money by holding positions vacant which creates salary accruals; they can look for new ways to bring money into their departments; and they can also look for more efficient ways of doing things; but the challenge is on the departments and employees to generate the money for the $600 one-time payment. He stated a team of employees has been working on a better employee performance evaluation which will be going into place shortly; and the one-time allotment is proposed to be given in June. He explained why they decided on a one-time payment. Chairman Higgs inquired if $600 is equivalent to 2% or 3%; with Mr. Jenkins responding affirmatively. Commissioner Scarborough stated he likes that because it is more of a level playing field; but he is concerned about savings. He stated there are differences in how a business operates and community service; as an attorney, he selects those clients that will generate income; but government is not able to select clients. He inquired how can the County be a good public servant while being a good business; and stated the job descriptions are mutually exclusive. Commissioner Cook stated he does not buy that. Commissioner Scarborough stated if he was a businessman, he would not spend the time with some of the people he does; but as an elected official, he is available at all times; and even though the public may move him away from spending time on a budget or reading an agenda, that is irrelevant. He stated someone working at the desk at a library does not have the ability to work out charges per hour to figure out cost benefits. Chairman Higgs stated an employee might come up with a suggestion which could do those things. Commissioner Scarborough stated he has a problem with equating public service to business; government is supposed to be providing for things; and explained the problems with privatizing educational facilities and the value of public education to society. He noted McDonnell Douglas increased its profits by 22%, but Brevard County is losing jobs; the company is not community-oriented, but profit oriented; and he cannot model the County after McDonnell Douglas. Commissioner Ellis noted if a company is not profit-oriented, it goes out of business and no one has a job; and if the County does not get business oriented, it will go out of business because the costs are getting out of control. Commissioner Scarborough stated in a lot of things the County is there because nobody else is; and if nobody is there, society begins to decline; and as society begins to decline, everything begins to back off. Commissioner Cook stated he does not agree there are fundamental differences between business and government; and people expect government to be as efficient as possible. Commissioner Scarborough stated he agrees with efficiency. Commissioner Cook stated in the County, no one ever gets fired; and the problem is there is no accountability. Commissioner Scarborough indicated he does not like taking a department and driving it to the point where it is going to be compensated if it can structure it. Commissioner Cook stated if the County is not meeting the community needs, it will know about it; and if departments can be more efficient and streamlined, it is not doing any harm to society.

Mr. Jenkins stated in the forefront is high quality service; and the structure is changing from being organized by function to being organized by service delivery to customers. He stated there are some agencies that do not raise revenues or have turnover; and money has been set aside to fund those that cannot generate the savings. He stated if a position is held open for a few weeks, they have to justify that it is a breakdown of service if the position is not filled; there may be situations where inspectors can do different types of inspections; there have been forecasts about what the libraries will be as a result of the expansion; and he has challenged the Library Department to come in with a reduction, and they have done it. He stated everyone is stretching, but it is achievable. He stated the two areas where there is a flat impact is in the grants for not-for-profits, which has been reduced from $800,000 to $650,000 and cultural grants. Chairman Higgs inquired will the Board see that again. Ms. Madden stated the committee is working on that; and the Board will see that again. Mr. Jenkins stated the Board will see the grant application, but there is only $650,000 in the budget.

Commissioner Cook stated the decline in society has not been due to lack of government intervention. Commissioner Scarborough stated there are a lot of programs that are inefficient and not doing the jobs; but if a program which is doing a good job is given the message if it cuts back, it will be rewarded, it may hurt that program that is helping society.

Chairman Higgs stated the principle in a business is survival, which depends on a multitude of factors, not just the bottom line; and the principle of government being in a businesslike mode is not that different because it is driven by customers, outcomes, and long-term survival. She stated she is not uncomfortable with challenging County employees to come up with mechanisms to save 2% to 3%. Commissioner Scarborough stated he is concerned that it simplifies it; the Board is looking at it in a bottom line sense rather than a long-range program sense; and there are philosophical differences. Chairman Higgs stated the bottom line is the long-range survivability of business and the community. Commissioner Scarborough stated he sees business riding on society. Commissioner Cook stated he is not sure government is going to solve the problem; but part of the problem is a social problem that government can only have a minor impact on, such as 28% of all families are single parent which creates all kinds of social ramifications. Commissioner Ellis inquired how much of that has been driven by government programs. Discussion ensued on the issue.

Commissioner Ellis recommended giving more discretion to the departments. Mr. Jenkins stated he would like to give the department director between zero and six hundred dollars. Commissioner Ellis inquired if Ms. Stewart allocates so much for each library and the library directors make the decision, would they have the discretion; with Mr. Jenkins responding they could. Mr. Jenkins stated there is a union contract that gives them 2% and twenty-two cents per hour; and he hates to have two classes of employees. Commissioner Ellis stated he does not agree with the way the union has to set up; and inquired if the good employees who are non-union are going to be penalized by giving them the same raise. Mr. Jenkins stated what will be given will be based on the money the departments generate unless they do not have the capacity to generate. Commissioner Ellis stated if the responsibility is going to be passed down, they need to be given the authority to make those decisions; and he would be disappointed if everyone in the department got the same raise. Mr. Jenkins stated it has to be based on the evaluation form; someone cannot be given a great evaluation and then only get $100. Commissioner Ellis stated a truth in evaluation policy is needed. Mr. Jenkins stated one of the criticisms of the system is that supervisors have pets and they play favorites; and they are trying to come up with an improved personnel evaluation system to prevent that from happening. Commissioner Ellis stated if supervisors and directors cannot be more objective, the County can get new supervisors and directors; and it is necessary to be realistic because it is demoralizing to be in an environment where everyone gets the same pay raise. Commissioner Cook inquired does anybody ever get fired in the County. Commissioner Scarborough

stated it is hard to fire people. Commissioner Cook stated the person who sent the note to Mr. Jenkins felt demoralized that they do their best but make the same wages as someone who may not be performing at an adequate level. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if it would be better to have all the employees evaluating each other rather than have the supervisors do it. Discussion ensued on the proposal. Mr. Jenkins stated it is hard to hold an employee accountable and win a popularity contest; and if he fires someone, they will not speak too highly of him. Commissioner Cook stated that goes with the business; and if Commissioner O'Brien fires someone, he is not too popular. Mr. Jenkins stated Commissioner O'Brien owns the company; he is not being evaluated; and that makes a difference because he will not lose his company if the supervisors say he is nasty. Commissioner Ellis inquired if Commissioner O'Brien personally evaluates every employee for their raises or do the Supervisors evaluate. Commissioner O'Brien stated a foreman will come forward to the general manager; the general manager knows all the employees personally; and he can either approve or disapprove. Commissioner Cook stated one of the reasons the County hires a County Manager is to make the tough decisions; and there is a level of accountability. Mr. Jenkins stated it is difficult to build support; and he believes in holding people accountable. Commissioner Cook stated he will support the County Manager on the decisions he makes; his evaluation of the County Manager is in terms of the entire operation of the County; and if there is not accountability in the County, that reflects on the County Manager more harshly than if someone came to him and said things about the County Manager. Mr. Jenkins stated one of the things the employees recommended is an employee self-evaluation which will be attached to the supervisor's evaluation; and there are checks and balances in the system to improve it.

Chairman Higgs noted the Board is behind schedule. Discussion ensued on the schedule, with the Board reaching consensus to continue to 1:00 p.m.

Commissioner Cook stated in the past the Commissioner took a more active role in intervening on personnel matters; that has ceased; there is a new philosophy; and he would expect the County Manager to take whatever actions are necessary to make sure the organization runs as efficiently as the taxpayers expect it to. He stated what Mr. Jenkins proposed with a one-time award sounds good to him; that is the way to go; and in the past the cost of living increases have been grossly inflated. Chairman Higgs stated she is comfortable with the suggestion. Commissioner Ellis stated he supports sending that authority down to the department heads and then it is up to them to delegate to their supervisors to start giving the good people the raises.

Parks and Recreation

Parks and Recreation Director Charles Nelson stated the budget is a continuation of last year's budget with some reorganization; the Board approved going to area operations; and in some cases it has been hard to track back numbers. Mr. Nelson stated it is a status quo budget; the Board gave clear direction at the June 5, 1995 workshop on funding issues; and it was agreed that issue could not be resolved in time for this year's budget; but that is something that is being worked on for next year's budget. He stated the Department is heavy into revenue collection; 32% of the budget is from

fees and charges; and the General Fund transfer represents 51% of the total budget, which is a reduction of 2% over las year. He stated the Department continues to go into privatization of services; there will be a bid opening in August, 1995 for golf maintenance; and that may significantly change the golf area depending on what the numbers are. He stated budget numbers have been given based on last year's information, knowing the numbers will be adjusted by Board approved changes that may occur. He stated the Department is continuing to move into privatization of mowing; mowing contracts are being reviewed to go from 41 sites to 74 sites; and a decrease in personnel is anticipated to fund the increased mowing sites. He noted he is not talking about layoffs but vacancies and using those dollars. He stated the Rockledge tennis courts project is an unfunded project; when it came to the Board, staff presented a cost for operation of $30,000, with $15,000 anticipated in revenue; and that is not included in the budget at this time. He noted the courts are under construction; and a decision needs to be made on how to deal with that issue. He stated Lake Washington Park is continuing; it is at the design stage; two maintenance positions were requested for two months next year; and that also needs to be addressed as it is unfunded. He stated he is not being arrogant in submitting $5 million in program changes; they have gone through the same process they historically do; the advisory boards provided a wish list for improvements they would like to see; and the lists have been included. He reiterated there are $5 million in unfunded program changes.

Commissioner Cook stated he does not understand about Lake Washington and the tennis courts; and inquired how can the County be building tennis courts and not budget for them. Mr. Jenkins stated Mr. Nelson asked for 1.5 positions; and he was given .5. He stated it is a matter of holding the line; he will have less coverage in the more critical hours; and suggested volunteers or other employees be used. Commissioner Cook stated it will be covered but not at the level Mr. Nelson desires. Commissioner Ellis stated it is cheaper to let people play for free than to have someone there.

Commissioner Scarborough requested an analysis of funds coming in. He stated in District 1 Parks and Recreation, there are MSTU monies; there is a new MSTU to build a park; and those revenue sources need to be segregated. He stated he does not get involved with the little questions in District 1; the Parks and Recreation Board works hard; but he needs to know the big picture and have the data to respond to constituents.

Commissioner Ellis stated he thought the off-road vehicle park was being converted to the MSTU park. Mr. Nelson responded it is, but there was money previously budgeted for that by the advisory board, and it was used for the A and E portion of that. Commissioner Ellis inquired about the land acquisition; with Mr. Nelson responding it had been budgeted at $50,000 a year; this is the third year; and it gets them up to sufficient dollars to buy the land. Commissioner Ellis stated the Board made an appropriation last year for Gibson, Kiwanis Island, and Travis for roofs; and he noticed a couple of unfunded roofs have been included. He stated he does not want to get in a position like the School Board where the roofs are not done, and then everything else falls apart. Commissioner O'Brien stated at Jetty Park, the building and boardwalk are in terrible shape; and the funds generated cannot even replace the building. Commissioner Cook stated there have been private

owners of parks looking at it; and he is concerned that the Port is going to take it over and sub it out to make money from it. Commissioner O'Brien stated the Port expects to spend approximately $800,000. Commissioner Cook stated the Port keeps saying that, but he does not know about the commitment. Mr. Jenkins suggested it could be put in the contract. Mr. Nelson stated he has been meeting with the Port; and advised it that the Board is adamant about the improvements being made and public access be continued; and that will be coming back to the Board. Commissioner Ellis inquired if it is possible to get rid of Jetty Park, has a loss been projected. Mr. Nelson stated Jetty Park is an enterprise operation, so there would be no loss. Commissioner O'Brien stated the revenue from Jetty park takes care of Jetty Park and three other parks. Commissioner Cook stated the camping is a profitable thing, but the drain is the other parks.

*County Attorney Scott Knox's absence and Assistance County Attorney Katharine Harasz' presence was noted at this time.

Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board requested staff look at selling a couple of parks, and Manatee Hammock is one of them; and inquired if the Board asked staff to look at the possibility of leasing it to someone where the County would get a stream of income. Mr. Nelson stated that is one of the options staff is looking at. Commissioner Scarborough inquired when will it come back; with Mr. Nelson responding staff is trying to get Jetty Park out of the way. Commissioner Scarborough inquired when will staff know about the park in District 1; and stated if it can be turned to a revenue stream, that may be better than a sale. Mr. Jenkins inquired if a Beach and Riverfront funded site can be rented out. Chairman Higgs stated it could be leased but the revenue may have to go back to that fund. Mr. Jenkins encouraged the Board to get a legal opinion on that. Mr. Nelson stated he will check. Assistant County Attorney Katharine Harasz advised there may be limitations on how the money can be spent. Commissioner Scarborough stated cash flow is important now. Ms. Harasz stated if it was funded by a tax deductible bond, then when it is leased to a private entity, it may lose its tax deduction status because a private entity can take advantage of the tax deduction which other developers would not have; so there are limitations under IRS law. She noted there may be a way to do, but it would have to be structured very carefully. Commissioner Scarborough stated the people would still have a park; but rather than having County dollars tied up in it, somebody would be getting some money out of it, and the County would have cash to move to another Parks and Recreation program. Mr. Nelson stated it may have been purchased out of the excess millage; and he will have to determine what is the actual source. Discussion ensued on the issue.

Commissioner Ellis inquired on some of the things, can Beach and Riverfront money be used; with Mr. Nelson responding if the original acquisition occurred as part of the Beach and Riverfront Program, the answer is yes. Discussion ensued on the Beach and Riverfront Program. Mr. Jenkins stated he is not aware that money has been used for repairs, but it has been used for development.

Commissioner Scarborough stated the intent was to acquire and use. Chairman Higgs stated maintenance was not a part of the original Beach and Riverfront issue. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if a new roof is maintenance. Mr. Nelson stated the County bought properties that had structures on them, and in order to place them in operation, there were improvements made to those

buildings; that was part of the original development; but they have not used the funds to do maintenance after the fact. Commissioner Scarborough inquired about the lights for Titusville. Mr. Nelson stated that was a new installation. Commissioner Scarborough stated even though it was redoing the lights, it was new. Mr. Nelson stated it was not repair. Mr. Jenkins inquired if Beach and Riverfront funds were used to put lights on a baseball field; with Mr. Nelson responding yes, at Sand Point Park. Commissioner Cook stated it was an improvement for the initial development. Commissioner Scarborough stated the park was acquired by the City and came to the County; and explained about the installation of lighting. Chairman Higgs stated there were opinions that excess millage could be collected ad infinitum; and a legal opinion is needed. Mr. Nelson stated there was an opinion issued almost four years ago under a different Board; the Board now has a different philosophy; and it has restricted itself in ways that historically had been practices. Commissioner Scarborough stated the important thing is to decide between a philosophical decision and a legal decision. Mr. Nelson stated he will get legal opinions on those issues for the Board.

Commissioner O?Brien stated some of the parks have been allowed to deteriorate; and the Board has to address that in this budget. Commissioner Cook stated it has to be addressed, but he is not so sure about addressing it in this budget. Commissioner O?Brien stated many of the park programs deal with children; and there is heavy use. Commissioner Cook stated he gets very few complaints on recreation of any kind. Commissioner O?Brien stated there was very little complaint about the issue of schools until the School Board asked for more money to fix them. Commissioner Ellis stated if a roof is lost, the County can lose the facility; and requested an assessment of the roof situation. Chairman Higgs stated the Rodes Park pavilion has been recommended for a total renovation; and inquired if that means the structure is currently deteriorating to the point that it needs immediate action. Discussion ensued on facilities.

Public Safety

Public Safety Director Don Boykin stated there are no proposed increases in the millage or the assessment; there is a decrease of less than 1% in the Fire Control MSTU millage; and there are no increases proposed in ambulance fees. He stated they are attempting to contain personnel costs; they have eliminated four full-time positions and two part-time positions; and not included in the recommended budget are the recent addition of seven fire medical personnel to staff the Titusville ambulance. He stated it will have the effect of reducing operating reserves and increasing personnel costs. He stated only one program change is shown as unfunded; and that is the staffing for the Viera East station which is to be built and equipped next year by The Viera Company at an estimated cost of $710,000.

Commissioner Cook inquired if that will come back in impact fee credits; with Chief Boykin responding yes. Alan Escoffery, Accountant for Public Safety, advised that is part of the DRI. Chief Boykin stated while personnel costs are going up, they have cut back significantly on operating expenses and capital expenditures, and they have not set aside reserves for the engine replacement program, which will affect the Fire Control MSTU millage in the long term. He stated the recommended budget for FY 1995-96 shows a decrease of $1 million or 4.7% under this year; the Department can operate at the reduced level without immediate impact; however, in the years following the compression of engine and ambulance replacement programs and the delay of station repair and building projects, there will be requests for significant funding increases.

Commissioner Ellis state the millage is now down 5%; and inquired what is the net revenue. Chief Boykin stated the millage has gone down less than 1%. Mr. Escoffery advised it is currently 1.5997 mills and the proposed is 1.5944 mills. Ms. Wall stated the rollback rate is 1.5822 mills; the recommended millage is 1.5944 mills; and there is a slight increase over rollback. Mr. Jenkins noted it is less than the current. Commissioner Ellis stated with new construction, the revenue to the Fire Department should be virtually the same; and somewhere there must be a loss of money as taxes are up a little bit, but expenditures are down by $1 million. Ms. Wall stated in capital the one-time expenditures were reduced. Mr. Jenkins stated operating expenses are down and revenues are up; and inquired how did that occur. Commissioner Ellis stated based on the taxes there is $300,000 to $400,000 more than last year; and it would seem that would cover the raises. Mr. Jenkins stated the Titusville station was opened. Chief Boykin stated the Department absorbed that cost. Commissioner Ellis stated the total number of employees went down. Mr. Jenkins stated those positions were added in this fiscal year; but there is a full year cost for the station this year rather than the partial year for last year. Commissioner Ellis inquired if the cost for those positions is $300,000 to $400,000; with Ms. Madden responding affirmatively. He stated the Board signed a contract with the fire fighters; and the raises are not an option. Ms. Wall stated at the time the budget was developed, it had not been determined what the raise distribution was, so the raises are located in the reserves. Commissioner Ellis inquired if reserve operating is overtime money; with Chief Boykin responding the operating reserve is cash forward. Mr. Jenkins stated the Viera community is generating significant dollars through the MSTU; those dollars are being used in other places; and what will have to be done in the next twelve months is staffing the Viera station.

Commissioner O?Brien inquired if a house catches on fire, who put it out; with Mr. Jenkins responding the Suntree Station comes over. Commissioner Cook stated at some point those revenues have to be applied to that station. Chairman Higgs inquired if that is one of the coverage areas the Board talked about the other day; with Mr. Jenkins responding yes. Commissioner O?Brien inquired about volunteerism; with Mr. Jenkins advising that is a tough area to get volunteers. Mr. Jenkins stated it was determined that Fire Rescue was duplicating some of the functions that Human Resources is supposed to be doing; and that is why two positions were eliminated.

Commissioner Ellis inquired what is the analysis on running the ambulances in the North County, and how can the Board review those rates. Ms. Madden advised the rate resolution will come to the Board. Commissioner Ellis inquired if that is based on a break even analysis; with Ms. Madden responding the County does a little better than break even, and there is cash carry forward. Mr. Jenkins advised it is under funded on the fire side, so they are trying to merge the two because EMS is generating more, fire is not generating enough, and fire may be carrying a disproportionate share of the overhead. Commissioner Scarborough stated that is part of the analysis for merging of services. Commissioner Ellis noted that would show up in next years budget. Commissioner Scarborough stated there are disparities in the different areas; he has a problem with impacts in the future which will result in increased millage rates because the Board is only looking at current year?s impact; and it would be interesting to have long range impacts shown. He stated it is not responsible to back a future Commission into a pocket by being overly frugal this year; and the Board needs to be honest. Mr. Jenkins stated staff will be providing a five-year projection for each department that is millage driven or generates CIP; but that will be highly speculative. Commissioner Scarborough stated he heard "replacement costs"; that is going to be done less vigorously; and that is a change in policy which is not seen in the current year budget, but may be seen later on. He stated if the Board is doing something of that nature, he wants to know before voting on the budget. Mr. Jenkins stated the CIP shows the five-year plan and shows the millage has to be raised to over a mill to fund the capital plan as proposed; staff advised at the workshop that the current system in fire, as structured, is not being funded at the level it needs to be funded; and as an alternative they may have to look for a different system. Commissioner Scarborough stated this like talking about the Social Security system; it is currently funded; but where is the County going to be with a future Commission.

Chairman Higgs inquired if the Board is prepared to do the CIP following this today; with Mr. Jenkins responding it will be done next Tuesday.

Commissioner Ellis stated in the past few years, the County has built some fire stations; each of those should have been a one-time expense in those years; and inquired if that money is available in 1995-96 to put into trucks and engines. Mr. Jenkins stated to some extent there is capital in this budget; and he is not saying they are not getting any. Commissioner Ellis stated in the past, the County built stations; and inquired should that money be available. Mr. Jenkins stated every time a station is built, it takes $300,000 a year to operate it. Commissioner Ellis stated in the future, the Board may want to look at putting the money into trucks and pumpers rather than buildings. Mr. Jenkins stated the County is trying to quit building stations and look for a more efficient delivery system to free up money to put three people on a truck, buy some trucks, and change the system; he does not think the Board is prepared to raise the millage to the point where it would give Chief Boykin everything he needs under the current method; and it will be necessary to change the system in order to be able to afford it.

Commissioner O?Brien suggested it could work like a health insurance program in a hospital; if a house catches fire and the fire department saves 90% of it, it can bill the insurance company for 45% of the value of the structure; and if it burns to the ground, the fire department gets nothing. Ms. Madden advised there are some departments charging for response. Mr. Jenkins stated the County has built four stations in the last three years; and those are $200,000 a piece plus equipment. he inquired if two stations were done in North Brevard; with Ms. Madden responding Canaveral Groves and Mims. Commissioner Cook stated the revenues need to be redirected.

Commissioner Ellis stated Coastal has the non-emergency transport north of the Pineda Causeway; the County is running the emergency transport which is the loser; and suggested the County get a franchise fee on that. Mr. Jenkins stated the Board could consider that; and the other option is whether the County wants to drop the emergency transport or contract it out. Commissioner Ellis inquired if the County would go to ALS engines with County people on the engines; with Ms. Madden advising that is one of the options. Commissioner Ellis stated Harbor City can break even because it runs emergency and non-emergency; and in the north end the County has the loser and Coastal has the winner. Mr. Jenkins stated Harbor City is going to change because they are unionizing and will be paying more people, and it is going from a volunteer system to a paid system.

The meeting recessed at 11:47 a.m. and reconvened at 12:00 noon.

Transit Services

Transit Services Director Don Lusk stated this has been a challenging year to put a budget together; there have been cuts at the federal and state level; and they have had to keep an eye on the budget that will begin on October 1, 1996. He stated what Congress is doing now does not affect Brevard county until that time frame, but there is a lot happening with regard to transit; and the County can plan this year, but no one knows what will happen the year after that. he stated staff established some goals; they need to adjust the budget to meet those goals and reduce the impact of SCAT on the General Fund while maximizing and leveraging federal and state dollars with the local dollars; and there are a capital budget and an operating budget. he stated for every dollar they put into capital, they usually get nine dollars back in terms of operating. He stated they want to minimize reduction in service to the public; and everything that is done is either reimbursed or paid directly by the trip. He stated there are reductions in federal transit dollars of approximately $230,000 and approximately $100,000 in state funds. He stated they also look at what funding cuts there will be with the contracts with HRS, Easter Seals, Vocational Rehab, etc.; and in some cases, they are not even sure those agencies will be there; so, it is hard to predict what will happen. He stated they have been able to reduce two full-time positions and one temporary position; they converted full-time positions into part-time positions; they reduced the spare ratio for vehicles, the transit capital they plan to extend, and the General Fund transfer; and they have increased revenues. He stated this year they deleted the SCAT Dispatch Supervisor; they also changed the way they do business in the commuter assistance world, and deleted that position; and the new way of doing business will help SCAT access all of the grant funds that have been available under commuter assistance. He stated they deleted the temporary special projects coordinator; and converted three full-time driver time positions to six part-time positions. Mr. Lusk noted the part-timers work much better than full-timers; there is more flexibility; and that is a trend for SCAT. He stated there are other people who have left and they plan to covert those positions to part-time. He stated they have reduced the spare ratio of the fleet by two; the spares are usually used when there are breakdowns or special trips; and the reduction means they will have to live closer to the edge and provide less special trips. He stated there is less carry forward in the capital because last year vehicles were purchased; some of the dollars available in the capital matches have helped in some of the operating cuts; and they will increase revenue through internal lease charges, increased paratransit fares, and additional dollars from HRS for transportation for the developmentally disabled. He stated they have been able to reduce the General Fund support by approximately $37,000 or 21%. He stated the total SCAT budget is down by 4.92%; they are working on $8.3 million this year; it looks like it will be $7.9 million next year; General Fund is down by 20.8%; and the impact was $178,000 this year, and will be $141,000 next year. He stated they have been able to meet needed reductions; and by converting full-time to part-time, they have been able to put more driver hours of service on the road.

Commissioner O?Brien inquired has staff communicated with the School Board about transporting children to school; with Mr. Lusk responding no, but there have been informal discussions. He stated there is a Joint Use Agreement whereby the County is able to use the school busses for transportation disadvantaged services and things of that nature; but federal guidelines prevent the County from actually doing school bus services. He noted the County can run routes incidental to where a school is located, but it has never been formally done; and he does not know how much interest there is on the School Board?s side. Commissioner O?Brien stated there would probably be quite a bit of interest if the County could do it cheaper than anyone, because the School Board could sell of its buses and reduce the maintenance cost completely. Commissioner Ellis stated if the County had bus routes where they do not use that much capacity, it might work, but the school buses hold more than the County?s. Commissioner O?Brien stated the County could design routes that go into neighborhoods at 7:45 a.m., and if there happen to be a lot of children there, it could also happen to pass by a school. Mr. Lusk stated it would be incidental. Ms. Madden stated developing a mixed route is a good concept. Mr. Lusk stated there are some things that are being done with paratransit where the School Board has bought passes; and there is a little bit of it going on. Commissioner O?Brien stated the Hertz Company has a plan to privatize all the school buses and all the vehicles the County has; he does not know what the cost would be to the County; but the Board may want to look at it. Chairman Higgs stated Ryder has a similar program. Commissioner O?Brien stated he would fear putting all the eggs in one basket because if the employees of Ryder went on strike, everything would come to a halt.

Commissioner Cook inquired if people can see out of the new buses that were painted; with Mr. Lusk responding yes.

Commissioner Ellis inquired how much of the Transit Services budget comes from gas tax dollars; with Mr. Lusk responding approximately $780,000. Ms. Wall stated the majority of the listing Other Transfers is coming from Local Option Gas Tax; with Budget Analyst Greg Pelham advising of the $283,000 shown, $245,000 is a direct transfer from Local Option Gas Tax. Commissioner Ellis stated he thinks there is more gas tax; with Mr. Pelham agreeing.

Commissioner Cook stated it seems there is a lot of travel to conferences. Mr. Lusk stated he has been working to bring that down; that is a projection, but they do not always have the funds to do them when the come through; and a lot of what they do is not local such as learning some other system. Commissioner Cook stated he is concerned about travel in general.

Commissioner O?Brien stated if the Transit Services employees do not go to various shows and expositions, their ability to come to the Board with feasible ideas is severely limited; getting employees to various shows is important; and it is worth the investment to go there if they come back with a half-million dollar savings later on.

Commissioner Cook stated he is not against training; but a lot of these things are junkets. He stated he has seen it in other agencies, although not specifically this one. Commissioner Scarborough stated he does continuing education by using tapes and books; once he has the material, it is in his library; if new employees come on, the seminar is available; they have the ability to review the tapes, and it becomes a pool of information. He stated another source of information is the Internet to pool information; and that is going to be better than traveling all over the place. he explained the advantages of Internet. Commissioner Cook stated the information is available; and it is not necessary to travel. Commissioner Ellis stated he has been trying to get on the Internet for almost a year. Commissioner O?Brien stated he does not agree; if Mr. Lusk goes to a conference in Phoenix, there may be five companies with a new way of painting buses; and they could educate Mr. Lusk on what kind of paint to use, the cost to paint a bus, which companies do this service, how they do it, etc. Commissioner Cook stated the information is available; and travel cannot be justified today because it is possible to get information without leaving the County. Commissioner O?Brien stated his company does six or seven shows a year; new people may have innovative ways of doing things; and that cannot be seen in a brochure or on the Internet. Commissioner Scarborough stated someone who is selling products has to go on the road and sell them; but it is another thing to go for training. He noted there are certain legal procedures by Statute which the County must follow in getting a bus painted; and it is not possible to go to a trade show and have someone paint the buses. Commissioner Cook stated he would like to look at travel as it is out of hand. Chairman Higgs stated the Board froze all travel a couple of years ago; and she is somewhere in between the two positions. She stated people can go to selected conferences and be inspired by not only what they learn, but by the associations; and there is some value to that; but she is not for everybody going to conferences. Commissioner Scarborough related his experiences with bond closings. Commissioner Ellis stated some of the things like bus rodeos are incentives for the employees. Commissioner Cook stated he does not think that is a problem; but he has seen so much abuse. Chairman Higgs inquired what about in-state travel. Commissioner Scarborough stated any travel takes the employee away from his job. Commissioner Cook stated he has been with other agencies where people have flown all over the place, although he never took a trip; and he cannot justify it in his own mind. Commissioner O?Brien stated he has sent employees to shows and had them come back with valuable information. Commissioner Cook stated he can understand it for a business; but in this where it is more continuing education, it is hard to justify trips; and it is like Congress justifying going to the Bahamas for a conference, but they played golf, etc. He stated if someone goes to a seminar, he is free in the afternoon, and goes out to dinner at night; he is not saying that some of them are not necessary; but he is not convinced that the travel is justifiable. Commissioner Ellis suggested looking more at out-of-state travel; with Commissioner Cook advising the Board could start there. Commissioner Ellis stated travel to Orlando does not waste two days on an airplane. Commissioner Scarborough stated that would be fine to say no airplane travel over two hours. Commissioner Ellis suggested Mr. Jenkins and Ms. Madden cut back on the out-of-state travel. Mr. Jenkins inquired what about grant funded travel; and stated in some cases the federal government pay it and encourages attendance. Commissioner Cook stated if it is mandated, they will have to travel; but even grant funded is taxpayer money. Chairman Higgs stated there is consensus that the Board may be more comfortable with in-state travel. Commissioner Ellis stated Brevard county is fortunate that so many conferences come to Orlando. Commissioner Scarborough stated he has no problem with Orlando.

Tourism Development

Tourism Development Director Robert Varley stated staff is projecting the same tax revenue as last year; and the disaster fund has reached the $200,000 level which means the capital facilities money now goes back into the capital facilities fund which should reach $112,000 this coming fiscal year. He stated the beach fund has grown to $1.2 million, and is being accrued for the beach erosion project; the County may get a matching grant from the State; and if that money comes back, it can go into the beach erosion fund. He stated he has increased travel by 14%. Commissioner Scarborough stated if travel is to buying or be educated, they should stay home, but if they are selling, they have to go. Mr. Varley stated he has worked out some cooperative efforts for two European sales missions.

Commissioner Scarborough inquired how about the Japanese market and what markets are other TDC?s hitting that Brevard County is not. Mr. Varley stated he looked at the international market and the budget; and they had to narrow in on what they could do effectively. He stated it is easy to work a ton of trade shows and do nothing else; but he looked at organizing sales missions where a team of eight or nine hoteliers who are interested and willing to pay their own way make one on one sales calls to tour operators. Commissioner Scarborough stated that takes a lot of time. Mr. Varley stated it will take some time to build up; before he arrived, there was an international marketing plan, but they threw it out the window; and it was marketing at the whim of whatever loud voice in the County wanted to do and wherever they wanted to go. He stated one of the first things he did was look at long-term plans for specific areas; he finally got some international travel back into the budget; and he will start out with a five-day travel mission to the United Kingdom and also one to Germany. He stated he is working with LTU which is a major charter airline service operating out of Dusseldorf to see if they can get some takers. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if they fly into Orlando; with Mr. Varley responding yes, and they are also starting to fly into Daytona. Mr. Varley stated his goal is to try to get them to look at charter service into there; he has been successful with First Air out of Canada; and there is some opportunity to work with Melbourne International Airport. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if there is a possibility of having European charters into Melbourne; with Mr. Varley responding affirmatively. Commissioner Scarborough inquired when will that happen; with Mr. Varley responding within a couple of years. Mr. Varley stated he is working with Larry Wuensch who is doing marketing for the airport to put together some packages. He noted Sanford Airport has been able to pull away from Orlando Airport strictly because charter airlines are second class citizens at Orlando Airport; and at Melbourne Airport there will be a new terminal, they will treat charters like first class citizens, and people will save approximately $21 in taxi fare by laying over in Melbourne instead of Orlando. He stated the County has a product to sell; and it is time to go back on the road and sell. Commissioner Scarborough inquired how much longer does it take to go to Disney on U.S.

192 versus the I-4 route. Mr. Varley stated it is probably a little bit longer, but hopefully that will improve with the widening of U.S. 192, which will be a boon for tourism. He stated the decrease in travel does not mean he is doing less, but that he is working smarter; and he is discussing going in with Kennedy Space Center for the Florida Huddle whereas traditionally KSC had its own booth in the Kissimmee-St. Cloud section. Commissioner Scarborough inquired about the Port; with Mr. Varley responding $2,000 is earmarked in the budget to give to the Port to take County materials to trade shows, and the Port supports the County with approximately $35,000 in co-op advertising. Mr. Varley stated the TDC is building good partnerships; and it is being expanded beyond the County line; and advised of other partnership opportunities. Commissioner Scarborough advised of his concern that the Brevard County TDC spends the lease amount on marketing because there are so many other programs. Chairman Higgs stated the County has made a lot of progress in the last few years. Commissioner Scarborough stated the County is a long way from making it work in spite of the way the Board has set up the funding. Commissioner Cook stated the Port will help a lot. Commissioner Ellis noted the Board did not set the funding up. Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board could put more to direct marketing if it wanted to; but direct marketing has very little priority with the TDC. Mr. Varley stated information has been provided on how the tax has been split up. Commissioner O?Brien stated the mission statement does not mention beaches, but the tax was developed for beach renourishment. Discussion ensued on the purpose of the tax. Commissioner O?Brien advised the comparison was made that the EDC only has a total budget of $400,000 while the TDC has a $40 million budget; with Commissioner Ellis disagreeing about the amount that actually goes to the TDC. Commissioner Cook stated part of the tax was to have things here for the people in the County; tourism is good, but comes at a price; and it was divided so that it would benefit residents as well as tourists. Commissioner Scarborough stated he voted for the zoo and the stadium; but money has been put into things which cannot be justified; and there are certain things which can be done which would build up jobs. Commissioner O?Brien stated F. Burton Park was built in the middle of nowhere; and tourists do not go to that park. Commissioner Ellis noted that was not built with TDC funds. Discussion ensued on where TDC funds were spent. Commissioner O?Brien stated the funds have been diverted in other directions besides tourism and beach renourishment. Commissioner Cook stated that is the way the tax was passed; and it never would have passed without all the other things. He stated tourists do a lot of good, but they also clog the roads and require services. Commissioner Scarborough stated they also pay gas tax and sales tax. Commissioner Cook stated the tradeoff which passed the tax was that the people who live here will get something out of it too; and that is why it has been diverted. He stated it has been good; F. Burton Smith Park was over built; but that is past history. He stated there has been some diversion that probably should not have happened; but in general, tourism is good for the County, and the Board wants to promote it. He stated the TDC referendum was different; very few of them had the arts as part of the formula; but the County has that. Chairman Higgs inquired if the formula is coming to the Board; with Mr. Varley responding it will come back for discussion on August 27, 1995.

Commissioner Ellis inquired if the TDC monitors the zoo. Ms. Madden advised the zoo is required to submit reports. Commissioner Ellis stated at the end of the subsidy, the zoo was supposed to be self-sufficient; and inquired if they are making progress. Mr. Jenkins inquired how long is the subsidy; with Ms. Madden responding it is until they reach $2.5 million. Mr. Varley advised they have just now paid a little over $1 million. Commissioner Ellis requested a financial report on the zoo; with Mr. Varley responding he will provide that.

Commissioner Cook stated he is impressed that the TDC was able to bring Meryl Streep and Robert DeNiro to Rockledge. Mr. Varley advised the movie being shot is Marvin?s Room.

Chairman Higgs advised at 1:00 p.m. she will have to leave; and a gentleman who has been here since the outset desires to make a comment.

Bill Perdue advised the Board needs to watch the part-time demand; people need benefits; and that is why he worked for Wal-Mart for a while because at 28 hours, you get some benefits. He stated one organization he worked with had a turnover rate so high, it was almost worthwhile to put in a full-time person because every time someone takes off for training, the company loses. He stated he is retired military; and his benefits are getting so bad that either he or his wife will have to work part-time to increase their benefits. He advised of the problems with military benefits. He stated the federal government is cutting programs; he hates to see the County talk about cutting the budget; twenty years ago, the County cut the budget; and after three years, the County was in such bad shape, it was necessary to jump the millage way up. He advised of deficiencies in emergency equipment, and the possible impact to the budget. He stated the County has gotten itself into a good position; and warned in a couple of years the federal government could cut $5 million out of grants, and the County will not be able to increase taxes to offset the grants. He stated the Republicans are going to shove it down our throats; and if the County does not build its tax base, it will be hurt.

Law Library

Law Library Director George McFarland stated last year the Law Library provided assistance to 55% public and 45% legal community; and that has changed to 70% public and 30% legal community. She stated not only is the percentage changing but the number of questions continues to go up. She requested a half-time person be added. She stated the only increases being requested other than salaries are the expenses generated by the move to Viera; they are asking to change a part-time position to full-time because when they move, they want to keep the library open the nine hours a day the building is open; and there will be two people on the information desk at all times, and people in the offices to answer reference questions on the telephone.

Commissioner Ellis inquired what about staffing at Melbourne and Titusville; with Ms. McFarland responding those libraries will no longer be there. Commissioner Ellis stated this is the first time he heard they are going to pull the law library out of the Melbourne Courthouse. Ms. Madden stated the plan has always been to consolidate Rockledge and Melbourne to the new courthouse. Commissioner Ellis stated he does not know how they can operate a courthouse without a law library. Mr. Jenkins stated there are books in the public library.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he was under the impression the Board was still discussing the makeup of the Melbourne facility; and that the issue was still before the Board of whether to have a library there. Commissioner Cook stated he cannot see wasting taxpayer money to have a law libraries spread all over the County; and he asked specifically whether there would have to be law libraries if the other courthouses were kept open and was told no, Melbourne would not have a law library. Commissioner Scarborough stated that is not what he heard. Commissioner Ellis stated there are redundant books in Rockledge and Melbourne; and inquired what is the point of bringing two sets of redundant books to the new courthouse. Ms. McFarland advised they are not all duplicates; and there are some large sets which are duplicates which will not be brought to the courthouse, but which they will attempt to sell. Commissioner Scarborough stated this is a real problem; there is only one law library; and it is going to be a Viera. Ms. McFarland responded that is the plan. Commissioner Scarborough stated there is 70% public use; even small law offices will use the law library less and less; the public has a right to access the court; and if the law library is moved exclusively to Viera, it is denying use to 70%. He inquired if someone would drive from Palm Bay or Titusville to Viera; with Mr. Jenkins responding there will be books in the public libraries. Ms. Madden noted there will not be a full complement of law books at the public libraries, but there will be a significant collection of volumes. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if the Titusville Law Library is to be closed, would those books be put into the North Brevard Public Library; with Ms. Madden responding they could go there. Commissioner Scarborough stated if that is done, he has no problem. Mr. Jenkins stated the same thing was going to be done in Melbourne. Commissioner Cook stated he concurs they should be in the libraries; and in Cocoa, there is an extensive law section. Commissioner Ellis stated certain sets of books are present in Titusville, Rockledge and Melbourne; and it was his understanding that the entire Rockledge Law Library would be moved to Viera, and that certain books from Titusville would be moved to Viera, with a generic collection remaining in Titusville and Melbourne. He stated he does not see how it is possible to run a courthouse without a generic collection of law books. Ms. Madden advised there were law books purchased by Court Administration which are in the courthouse, not in the Law Library; and some of them are duplicates. Commissioner Scarborough stated it appears that a substantial number of volumes will be leaving Titusville; and inquired about having books in other areas. Chairman Higgs

stated it would take forty minutes to get to a law library from Micco or the South Beaches today; and Commissioner Scarborough?s concern is that other people will have the same situation. Commissioner Scarborough stated there are people in Scottsmoor and Mims who have an extended drive to get to the Titusville Library; they have historically had access to law books; now the Law Library will be a single entity at Viera; and inquired what type of law library services should be in the public libraries. Commissioner Cook stated it is once in a blue moon that a person from the general public uses the law library; and inquired how can the Board justify putting law libraries all over the County at a great expense for a very minute number of people. He inquired how many people in the County have ever used the law library or even know the County has one. Commissioner Ellis stated a lot of people use the law library in Melbourne because when the librarian was not there, they were knocking on his office looking for help. He stated the only cost of running the law library at Melbourne Courthouse is the salaries. Commissioner Scarborough stated he gets calls from people wanting to know how to get law books; there are a number of people who do their own legal research; and 70% of the law book use is by the public. He stated the trend is for public usage rather than attorney usage; and there will be more and more demand by the public. Chairman Higgs stated this should be put on the agenda; and she has questions about the hours at the new law library.

Chairman Higgs passed the gavel to Vice Chairman Ellis.

Commissioner Higgs? absence was noted at this time.

Vice Chairman Ellis stated if there is only going to be one library, four people are not needed. Ms. McFarland stated it does not matter where the staff is; there are the same number of questions coming in; and the fact that they are answering questions from the public means that it takes more staff time per question. She stated there has been a consistent drop in the use of the Titusville Law Library. Commissioner Scarborough stated if the facility is moved to Viera, there will be less public usage and more attorney usage because people are less likely to drive another half hour to look at a book. Ms. McFarland stated they cannot continue to operate with less people. Commissioner Cook stated usage is down in Titusville; and he is sorry is someone has to drive twenty minutes to get to a law library. Commissioner Scarborough stated for Commissioner Higgs to get to the Government Center takes and hour; and it is thirty to forty-five minutes to get to the Government Center from Titusville. Commissioner Cook stated it used to be that everybody had to drive to the Titusville Courthouse to get anything done; and his concern is the expense. He stated he does not mind enhancing the public library aspects of the law books; but he does not see the justification of having another law library in Melbourne if it can be enhanced in the public library where most of the use is coming.

Commissioner Scarborough stated he agrees philosophically; and suggested looking at this as a public function. Vice Chairman Ellis inquired what is the expense if you already have the books; with Ms. McFarland responding staff. Discussion ensued. Mr. Jenkins stated the main difference is staffing, whether it is staffing one main library or three or four libraries; and if books are put in the public libraries, the reference librarians can be trained to assist people with the books. Ms. Madden stated she thought that was the direction the Board gave. Vice Chairman Ellis stated he thought the Cocoa Public Library would get the law books; with Ms. Madden responding there will be some in Melbourne and some in Titusville. Commissioner Scarborough recommended this be placed on the agenda for discussion. Commissioner O?Brien inquired if there are 24,000 users; with Ms. McFarland responding that is 24,000 bodies that walk through the door. Ms. Madden advised that is not an unduplicated figure.

Commissioner O?Brien inquired how many library cards are there; with Ms. McFarland responding there are not library cards and no circulation. Vice Chairman Ellis stated that is why someone has to be there when the library is open so no one steals the books. Ms. Madden advised the books cannot be taken out because they are too expensive. Commissioner O?Brien inquired what would it cost to issue a library card for the law library; and stated there could be 50,000 uses a year by 2,000 people.

Commissioner Scarborough stated it gets to the fundamental right to access legal information; if someone is incarcerated, he has access to the law library; and inquired if they average person has the ability to go into a law library and read if he is facing a bankruptcy, divorce, etc. He stated the same type of law books are not necessary for that individual as for an attorney; but certain basic things are necessary. Ms. McFarland stated a professional law library staff is needed to help the people in the community; she has seen staff in the Cocoa Public Library trying to handle questions; and those people end up coming to the Law Library anyway. Commissioner Scarborough stated he never thought the research was that complex. Ms. McFarland advised it is for the kind of people who come in with a one-time question. Commissioner Scarborough inquired if the reference librarians could be trained in a seminar; with Ms. McFarland responding she tried. Mr. Jenkins stated he thinks it can be done. Ms. McFarland stated the Law Library will be the backup for the public library. Commissioner Cook stated BCC has a incredible collection of law books; and other libraries have to be factored in. Ms. Madden stated the budget is predicated on the fact that the other libraries will be collapsed and there will be a law library and staff at the new courthouse, and that there will be significant collections in the Titusville, Cocoa and Melbourne libraries; and an advantage of that is that all three public libraries are open on weekends and until 9:00 p.m. on most evenings for public access. She stated attorneys are moving to CD-ROM and Internet; the public is also moving in that direction; and the access could be done electronically.

Commissioner Scarborough stated the Board needs assurances where it is going; and he has some uneasy feelings now. Commissioner O?Brien stated he would like to verify the numbers; and suggested methods for doing so.

Commissioner Scarborough stated a problem with the Titusville Law Library is that most people do not know it is there; and if it is put in the public libraries, there will be increased usage.

Ms. McFarland stated she is mandated to be in the courthouse; if the public libraries want to have a collection of legal books for which they budget the staff, that is fine; but that is separate from the law library. Commissioner Scarborough stated Ms. McFarland is saying she is mandated to be in the courthouses, but is not going to be in the courthouses in Titusville and Melbourne. Ms. Madden advised a law library is mandated, but not in all courthouses.

Commissioner Cook inquired why spend $18 million on the courthouse and then duplicate everything. Commissioner Scarborough stated the County could take all the libraries, close them, and open one library, which would be cheaper and have more volumes; but the purpose is not necessarily to have the cheapest, but to serve the most people at the best cost. Commissioner Cook stated the travel distances and times are because of the configuration of the County. Commissioner Scarborough stated if the County was chopped into three counties, each could have their own courthouse and library, and there would be no problem. Commissioner Cook inquired why build a consolidated center and then duplicate things. Vice Chairman Ellis stated it is supposed to consolidate the circuit judges, not all the judges. Discussion ensued on the issues of consolidation and access for the public. Commissioner Cook stated he does not mind enhancing the public libraries. Commissioner Scarborough stated that may be where the County should be headed.

Ms. McFarland stated people come in one to three times until they get their particular problem solved, and then she does not see them again; and they are willing to come to a good collection of professional staff to assist them in finding the information they need.

Commissioner Cook stated those are not the type of things that people do every day; and inquired why the access problem is so hot. Commissioner Scarborough stated when he tells people they have to go to Viera, he has to be careful because they might hit him; and if he wants to make people mad, he can tell them they have to go to Viera. Ms. Madden stated Commissioner Scarborough will have to advise them to go to the Titusville Library. Commissioner O?Brien suggested signs be put in the courthouses. Discussion resumed on the question of access. Ms. Madden noted Orange County has one law library; and it is downtown in the public library, not in the courthouse.

Commissioner Cook stated the Commissioners have to watch not being too parochial. Commissioner Scarborough stated it is not parochial. Commissioner Cook stated the issue is how to serve the general public; and moving to the public libraries may be the way to go. Vice Chairman Ellis agreed he does not think it is parochial, but he does not see how they can have a courthouse without a law library.

Ms. Madden reiterated this will be on the agenda. Vice Chairman Ellis stated the County needs to contact the Bar Association and the judiciary as they are the people more involved; with Commissioner Scarborough agreeing. Commissioner Cook stated they will want a law library in every courthouse; and inquired if the Board should just write a check. Vice Chairman Ellis inquired what is the additional expense. Commissioner Scarborough stated when the Board discusses it, it should include everyone involved.

Commissioner Scarborough requested Mr. Jenkins have Legislative Affairs and Economic Development Director Greg Lugar critique how the EDC operates in Polk County. Vice Chairman Ellis and Commissioner Cook agreed. Discussion ensued on the information desired.

Upon motion and vote, the meeting adjourned at 1:22 p.m.

NANCY N. HIGGS, CHAIRMAN

BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS

BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA

ATTEST:

As Approved by the Board on 10-10-95

SANDY CRAWFORD, CLERK

(SEAL)